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I think you should reconsider your thoughts about this a bit. There is a genuine revolution underway being enabled by plummeting costs of producing lithium-ion

by durkie 8y ago

I think you should reconsider your thoughts about this a bit. There is a genuine revolution underway being enabled by plummeting costs of producing lithium-ion batteries at scale. Whether or not Tesla will lead it (or even continue be part of it) is certainly up for debate, but large, real things are happening and saying "everyone ride a bike!" is ignoring a reality that isn't tainted by feelings about Tesla/Elon.

legolas2412 8y ago
> There is a genuine revolution underway being enabled by plummeting costs of producing lithium-ion batteries at scale. I guess that is another story he sells. Why are Samsung and LG also able to make cheap batteries, even though they don't have a gigafactory? Too much hype. Tesla doesn't even make battery cells, they buy them off panasonic.
- durkie 8y ago
  One of the nuances that gets lost when talking about battery costs is the difference between cell-level (individual 18650 / 2170 li-ion cells) costs and pack-level (the assembled collection of thousands of those cells) costs. Both costs are expressed as $/kilowatt-hour but comparing them is comparing apples to apple pie. Samsung, LG and Panasonic specialize in producing individual cells and don't do a lot of EV pack-level assembly. I think LG does pack assembly for the Chevy Bolt, but that car isn't produced in very large quantities and has a stated cell cost of $145/kwh. There are hints that Tesla can producing entire packs at a comparable cost/kwh, if not less.
Fricken 8y ago
There isn't a revolution underway. Everyone switching to an electric personal automoblie won't save us from anything. We'll just be destroying the planet at a marginally slower rate. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.
- durkie 8y ago
  > You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Why not?
  - Fricken 8y ago
    Reason is slave to the passions. Musk sells a mirage that you can be reasonable without ever having to examine your passions. Who doesn't love driving? We just want to be told a lullabye that driving can still be the right thing to do. Musk is there for you. Musk and his little man.
    - kamaal 8y ago
      >>Reason is slave to the passions. Thank goodness for that, or heavier than air flying machines would still not be possible. Man would have never reached the moon, and the atoms wouldn't have been split. Big progress largely happens because of irrationality. You have to be a little stupid and stubborn to do attempt a few things. Intelligent rational people are too clever for somethings in this world.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  > You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. The way to do this is to start with 2 cakes. But where is Earth2?
  - yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
    I seem to recall Musk trying to get to Mars...
    - stephengillie 8y ago
      He's got 4 cakes. Maybe he'll eat one on the way.

by durkie 8y ago

legolas2412 8y ago

> There is a genuine revolution underway being enabled by plummeting costs of producing lithium-ion batteries at scale. I guess that is another story he sells. Why are Samsung and LG also able to make cheap batteries, even though they don't have a gigafactory? Too much hype. Tesla doesn't even make battery cells, they buy them off panasonic.

durkie 8y ago
One of the nuances that gets lost when talking about battery costs is the difference between cell-level (individual 18650 / 2170 li-ion cells) costs and pack-level (the assembled collection of thousands of those cells) costs. Both costs are expressed as $/kilowatt-hour but comparing them is comparing apples to apple pie. Samsung, LG and Panasonic specialize in producing individual cells and don't do a lot of EV pack-level assembly. I think LG does pack assembly for the Chevy Bolt, but that car isn't produced in very large quantities and has a stated cell cost of $145/kwh. There are hints that Tesla can producing entire packs at a comparable cost/kwh, if not less.

Fricken 8y ago

There isn't a revolution underway. Everyone switching to an electric personal automoblie won't save us from anything. We'll just be destroying the planet at a marginally slower rate. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

durkie 8y ago
> You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Why not?
- Fricken 8y ago
  Reason is slave to the passions. Musk sells a mirage that you can be reasonable without ever having to examine your passions. Who doesn't love driving? We just want to be told a lullabye that driving can still be the right thing to do. Musk is there for you. Musk and his little man.
  - kamaal 8y ago
    >>Reason is slave to the passions. Thank goodness for that, or heavier than air flying machines would still not be possible. Man would have never reached the moon, and the atoms wouldn't have been split. Big progress largely happens because of irrationality. You have to be a little stupid and stubborn to do attempt a few things. Intelligent rational people are too clever for somethings in this world.
stephengillie 8y ago
> You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. The way to do this is to start with 2 cakes. But where is Earth2?
- yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
  I seem to recall Musk trying to get to Mars...
  - stephengillie 8y ago
    He's got 4 cakes. Maybe he'll eat one on the way.