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"Musk is going a bit too far in suggesting that other forces are involved unless he has credible evidence," It's not a bit too far since oil&gas companies and

"Musk is going a bit too far in suggesting that other forces are involved unless he has credible evidence," It's not a bit too far since oil&gas companies and car companies have an established history of doing very evil things.

twblalock 8y ago
> It's not a bit too far since oil&gas companies and car companies have an established history of doing very evil things. That does not mean they have done every specific evil thing they are accused of, such as sabotaging Tesla's factory.
- senthil_rajasek 8y ago
  Protecting a company against sabotage is a CEO's job and competitors enticing/inducing employees into acts of sabotage is a plausible threat, in this light an internal leaked memo is not a public accusation and so reasonable.
- natch 8y ago
  They haven’t been accused in this case, so let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    Maybe not accused directly but Musk's email seems to heavily imply it.
    - natch 8y ago
      Hardly. Stating that something is a possibility that is worth looking into is not anything close to implying that that thing is necessarily the case. This is basic critical thinking 101.
gamblor956 8y ago
Oil and gas companies have a far easier, and legal way to destroy Tesla: they could simply buy up its outstanding debt and call it in. That would immediately bankrupt Tesla. As it so happens, a number of the oil and gas companies have recognized that oil and gas are the past, and have transitioned to calling themselves "energy" companies and are spending billions on alternative energy industries.
- adwn 8y ago
  > they could simply buy up its outstanding debt and call it in They could try to buy it up, and they might succeed, but they can't call in the debt willy-nilly before it matures.
  - XorNot 8y ago
    Also even if they did...Tesla can issue new debt to fund it - which would be more valuable to the debt holders because the'd now know there's a good chance they can sell it on. The market can remain irrational a lot longer then you can remain solvent - and no one company is big enough to ignore this.
    - gamblor956 8y ago
      They could try to issue new debt. But who would want to acquire debt in a company that is about to be forced into bankruptcy by its creditors? The second round of debt would be subordinated to the original round of debt, meaning that new debtholders would make back pennies on the dollar, if that.
      - XorNot 8y ago
        Why? Nothing about the valuation has changed in this scenario - the valuation has in fact gone up because a large player has moved into the market and is (1) buying up all the debt instruments (so their value is going up and up and up) and (2) if you're an original investor, you still believe you'll make your money back on Tesla, so all you do is sell your holdings to Big Oil, and then offer the exact same terms again to Tesla to payback the original instrument. And it means you've already made your original money back, so you've got the cash to spare to do it.

twblalock 8y ago

> It's not a bit too far since oil&gas companies and car companies have an established history of doing very evil things. That does not mean they have done every specific evil thing they are accused of, such as sabotaging Tesla's factory.

senthil_rajasek 8y ago
Protecting a company against sabotage is a CEO's job and competitors enticing/inducing employees into acts of sabotage is a plausible threat, in this light an internal leaked memo is not a public accusation and so reasonable.
natch 8y ago
They haven’t been accused in this case, so let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  Maybe not accused directly but Musk's email seems to heavily imply it.
  - natch 8y ago
    Hardly. Stating that something is a possibility that is worth looking into is not anything close to implying that that thing is necessarily the case. This is basic critical thinking 101.

gamblor956 8y ago

Oil and gas companies have a far easier, and legal way to destroy Tesla: they could simply buy up its outstanding debt and call it in. That would immediately bankrupt Tesla. As it so happens, a number of the oil and gas companies have recognized that oil and gas are the past, and have transitioned to calling themselves "energy" companies and are spending billions on alternative energy industries.

adwn 8y ago
> they could simply buy up its outstanding debt and call it in They could try to buy it up, and they might succeed, but they can't call in the debt willy-nilly before it matures.
- XorNot 8y ago
  Also even if they did...Tesla can issue new debt to fund it - which would be more valuable to the debt holders because the'd now know there's a good chance they can sell it on. The market can remain irrational a lot longer then you can remain solvent - and no one company is big enough to ignore this.
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    They could try to issue new debt. But who would want to acquire debt in a company that is about to be forced into bankruptcy by its creditors? The second round of debt would be subordinated to the original round of debt, meaning that new debtholders would make back pennies on the dollar, if that.
    - XorNot 8y ago
      Why? Nothing about the valuation has changed in this scenario - the valuation has in fact gone up because a large player has moved into the market and is (1) buying up all the debt instruments (so their value is going up and up and up) and (2) if you're an original investor, you still believe you'll make your money back on Tesla, so all you do is sell your holdings to Big Oil, and then offer the exact same terms again to Tesla to payback the original instrument. And it means you've already made your original money back, so you've got the cash to spare to do it.