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The commenter almost certainly has no idea (or more likely, chooses to ignore) the operational infrastructure and excellence it takes to scale a marketplace lik

The commenter almost certainly has no idea (or more likely, chooses to ignore) the operational infrastructure and excellence it takes to scale a marketplace like Uber's to 4 billion rides, as fast as Uber did it. Any hot-take that centers around "It's just an app that a couple of guys wrote in an afternoon with some underpaid drivers doing all the work" is someone arguing in bad faith (and I suspect the person is well aware of it). There is a ton that goes into scaling a marketplace in general - let alone an on-demand one with thousands of corner cases, real time demand forecasting, real time fare calculations, real time capacity planning, customer support operations, etc.

selectodude 8y ago
Please. They drive around on roads that they don't pay for, in cars that they don't own, using drivers that they don't pay. The routing engine is Google's (they all use Maps). The rest of the stuff is impressive, and not something that you can put together in a day, or even a year. But I don't think it should be as difficult as it is for them to make a profit. I genuinely don't know what their expenses are other than giving away shit for free.
- askafriend 8y ago
  You know Uber builds it's own mapping services right? And in fact, the guy who helped lead those efforts is the guy responsible for creating Google Earth which later formed the basis for Google's entire mapping efforts (which he led). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_McClendon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_McClendon He's a great guy by the way, in addition to being super smart. Your others points are not well thought through at all - I urge you to spend some time really thinking deeply about them if this is a topic you care about. Every company drives around on roads they don't pay for. Roads are a benefit to society - part of the reason we value them is because they enable commerce. Do you complain that GrubHub doesn't use their own roads when they deliver your food? Do you complain that Pizza Hut doesn't own it's own cars when their delivery drivers bring you pizza? Does United help pay for the airports that enable them to exist? Look, the fact of the matter is that consumers LOVE ride sharing services. They're fast, they're cheap, they're clean, they're safe, and the customer support is incredible. Ride sharing today is simply 10x better than any alternative in most cities. If you're going to argue for cabs being superior, then you either do not live in America or you've never taken a cab before. Not only that, but many drivers love ride-sharing too. Whole classes of people that couldn't find work before can now easily find work with Uber or Lyft (including the deaf, mute, retired, students etc). They can work when they want to, as much as they want to (or as little) and set their own schedule. This is simply not possible with any other low-wage work. Having said all of this, I don't mean to imply that we should absolve Uber of responsibility for their business practices or their culture problems. We should absolutely push them, and the industry to be better. But this isn't just about Uber. This is about ride-sharing in general, which completely changed what transportation in cities means. It is absolutely innovative in every sense of the word.
  - selectodude 8y ago
    >You know Uber builds it's own mapping services right? And in fact, the guy who helped lead those efforts is the guy responsible for creating Google Earth which later formed the basis for Google's entire mapping efforts (which he led). Yeah, but when I get into a car it's not Uber Maps on the phone, it's Google Maps. So I'm not very concerned about a guy who worked at Uber for less than two years. >He's a great guy by the way, in addition to being super smart. I'm sure he is, which is why he got the hell out of there. >Do you complain that GrubHub doesn't use their own roads when they deliver your food? Yes, I would like for them to pay their fair share in road taxes. >Do you complain that Pizza Hut doesn't own it's own cars when their delivery drivers bring you pizza? ...yes, but now we're being redundant. >Does United help pay for the airports that enable them to exist? Now this is just ignorant. Yes, large airports charge millions in landing fees. Train companies pay absolutely egregious property tax rates. It's just cars and trucks that get away with paying 18.4 cents per gallon. Oh, and me who has to pay taxes to fix the roads here while congestion and air pollution here in Chicago have absolutely skyrocketed. >which completely changed what transportation in cities means. Uber's success is basically because they were able to push all of the legacy costs of public transit onto taxpayers and claiming that they're more efficient. It's VC-funded bus routes but using a phone. DISRUPTION.
    - askafriend 8y ago
      > Yeah, but when I get into a car it's not Uber Maps on the phone, it's Google Maps. So I'm not very concerned about a guy who worked at Uber for less than two years. Navigation might be Google Maps or Waze, but everything else is Uber. My point is that Uber is 100% serious about mapping and they are investing a ton of resources into it. They're likely one of the few players who are doing this at scale, internationally. > I'm sure he is, which is why he got the hell out of there. Now you're projecting. He left Uber so that he can run for office in his hometown of Kansas City. I think he has a lot to contribute outside of technology. I got to know him because I went to a talk he gave once. And no I don't work for any of these companies. > Taxes & Roads Ultimately, everyone pays for roads. Not just drivers. And we pay for them because they're for the benefit of everyone. They enable services like GrubHub/Uber/UPS/Dominoes as well as commerce more generally - which in turn makes our lives better. It's a complex system, and I suspect that the tax revenue the government gets for roads is higher after the introduction of Uber/Lyft. With that being said, if you feel a tax is necessary then I respect that opinion. Even with a tax like you're suggesting, it won't change the demand curve meaningfully or affect Uber's profitability. It's likely serve to further entrench them if anything at this point. With respect to your point about Airports, they're not even close to being paid for by the airlines in any meaningfully fair way. First of all, the government subsidizes it up front with billions of dollars, expensive zoning, planning resources etc. That's a huge capital risk that society takes on for the long-term benefit of everyone (you can't opt-out if you don't fly on planes). Yes, airlines pay usage taxes and some other fees that help pay for the airport but it stands to reason that the government won't recoup that kind of money in even a single decade. The government props up the airlines industry in large part because we demand it and it makes our lives better. > Uber's success is basically because they were able to push all of the legacy costs of public transit onto taxpayers and claiming that they're more efficient. It's VC-funded bus routes but using a phone. DISRUPTION. Absolutely wrong. I use Uber/Lyft every day. I don't have a car. Uber/Lyft are nothing like a bus route - not even close. To even suggest that they're similar to a traditional bus service route is to reveal that you haven't used the services in any meaningful way. They are absolutely 100% disruptive (even more so if you're a woman and safety is important to you). I'm telling you, ride sharing has changed how I get around in cities, period. There's a reason drivers drive for these services. Ride sharing is creating a whole class of jobs that have a very important role to play in society. Stay-at-home moms that use Uber/Lyft to supplement their income while being able to have flexible work. Students that are just getting started in their career and are using Uber/Lyft to sustain themselves in the interim. Retired veterans who don't have any other way to earn a steady income. Deaf people who can't find jobs otherwise. Immigrants who are trying to build up a support base for themselves. The list goes on. Talk to the drivers, this kind of work is a big boon to a lot of people. Now, should these be the only career options for people? Obviously not. I think that's where most people's concerns are valid. We can't create a society where this is the only type of work available. But can this type of work exist alongside other meaningful options? Of course!
jakecopp 8y ago
"...operational infrastructure and excellence it takes to scale a marketplace like Uber's to 4 billion rides..." Nope! In the grand scheme of things, building an app, and some backend software while maintaining bunch of servers doesn't compare to building: [1] - 46 BART stations: 17 surface, 14 elevated and 15 subway stations. - 669 revenue vehicles - 112 miles of railway track - a police force with 206 legally sworn-in law enforcement officers and 90 other staff members - a wireless network that supplies cell phone service to riders underground BART isn't even that good - I live in Sydney and we are always complaining about our double-decker dead-silent very clean commuter and city rail. Buzzfeed [2] even thinks our train system is from the future! I love software - I want to make a career out of it, but we can't forget "real" engineering fields and the effort that goes into them. [1]: https://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/04/us/san-francisco-bay-area-rapid-transit-fast-facts/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/04/us/san-francisco-bay-area... [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/sydney/comments/8rulvn/mfw_americans_think_sydneys_public_transport/ https://www.reddit.com/r/sydney/comments/8rulvn/mfw_american...
- vincentmarle 8y ago
  Structural engineering is the art of solving the known knowns, which basically reduces the complexity to budgeting/resource planning. Startups need to solve the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns, which is inherently more challenging and difficult.

selectodude 8y ago

Please. They drive around on roads that they don't pay for, in cars that they don't own, using drivers that they don't pay. The routing engine is Google's (they all use Maps). The rest of the stuff is impressive, and not something that you can put together in a day, or even a year. But I don't think it should be as difficult as it is for them to make a profit. I genuinely don't know what their expenses are other than giving away shit for free.

askafriend 8y ago
You know Uber builds it's own mapping services right? And in fact, the guy who helped lead those efforts is the guy responsible for creating Google Earth which later formed the basis for Google's entire mapping efforts (which he led). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_McClendon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_McClendon He's a great guy by the way, in addition to being super smart. Your others points are not well thought through at all - I urge you to spend some time really thinking deeply about them if this is a topic you care about. Every company drives around on roads they don't pay for. Roads are a benefit to society - part of the reason we value them is because they enable commerce. Do you complain that GrubHub doesn't use their own roads when they deliver your food? Do you complain that Pizza Hut doesn't own it's own cars when their delivery drivers bring you pizza? Does United help pay for the airports that enable them to exist? Look, the fact of the matter is that consumers LOVE ride sharing services. They're fast, they're cheap, they're clean, they're safe, and the customer support is incredible. Ride sharing today is simply 10x better than any alternative in most cities. If you're going to argue for cabs being superior, then you either do not live in America or you've never taken a cab before. Not only that, but many drivers love ride-sharing too. Whole classes of people that couldn't find work before can now easily find work with Uber or Lyft (including the deaf, mute, retired, students etc). They can work when they want to, as much as they want to (or as little) and set their own schedule. This is simply not possible with any other low-wage work. Having said all of this, I don't mean to imply that we should absolve Uber of responsibility for their business practices or their culture problems. We should absolutely push them, and the industry to be better. But this isn't just about Uber. This is about ride-sharing in general, which completely changed what transportation in cities means. It is absolutely innovative in every sense of the word.
- selectodude 8y ago
  >You know Uber builds it's own mapping services right? And in fact, the guy who helped lead those efforts is the guy responsible for creating Google Earth which later formed the basis for Google's entire mapping efforts (which he led). Yeah, but when I get into a car it's not Uber Maps on the phone, it's Google Maps. So I'm not very concerned about a guy who worked at Uber for less than two years. >He's a great guy by the way, in addition to being super smart. I'm sure he is, which is why he got the hell out of there. >Do you complain that GrubHub doesn't use their own roads when they deliver your food? Yes, I would like for them to pay their fair share in road taxes. >Do you complain that Pizza Hut doesn't own it's own cars when their delivery drivers bring you pizza? ...yes, but now we're being redundant. >Does United help pay for the airports that enable them to exist? Now this is just ignorant. Yes, large airports charge millions in landing fees. Train companies pay absolutely egregious property tax rates. It's just cars and trucks that get away with paying 18.4 cents per gallon. Oh, and me who has to pay taxes to fix the roads here while congestion and air pollution here in Chicago have absolutely skyrocketed. >which completely changed what transportation in cities means. Uber's success is basically because they were able to push all of the legacy costs of public transit onto taxpayers and claiming that they're more efficient. It's VC-funded bus routes but using a phone. DISRUPTION.
  - askafriend 8y ago
    > Yeah, but when I get into a car it's not Uber Maps on the phone, it's Google Maps. So I'm not very concerned about a guy who worked at Uber for less than two years. Navigation might be Google Maps or Waze, but everything else is Uber. My point is that Uber is 100% serious about mapping and they are investing a ton of resources into it. They're likely one of the few players who are doing this at scale, internationally. > I'm sure he is, which is why he got the hell out of there. Now you're projecting. He left Uber so that he can run for office in his hometown of Kansas City. I think he has a lot to contribute outside of technology. I got to know him because I went to a talk he gave once. And no I don't work for any of these companies. > Taxes & Roads Ultimately, everyone pays for roads. Not just drivers. And we pay for them because they're for the benefit of everyone. They enable services like GrubHub/Uber/UPS/Dominoes as well as commerce more generally - which in turn makes our lives better. It's a complex system, and I suspect that the tax revenue the government gets for roads is higher after the introduction of Uber/Lyft. With that being said, if you feel a tax is necessary then I respect that opinion. Even with a tax like you're suggesting, it won't change the demand curve meaningfully or affect Uber's profitability. It's likely serve to further entrench them if anything at this point. With respect to your point about Airports, they're not even close to being paid for by the airlines in any meaningfully fair way. First of all, the government subsidizes it up front with billions of dollars, expensive zoning, planning resources etc. That's a huge capital risk that society takes on for the long-term benefit of everyone (you can't opt-out if you don't fly on planes). Yes, airlines pay usage taxes and some other fees that help pay for the airport but it stands to reason that the government won't recoup that kind of money in even a single decade. The government props up the airlines industry in large part because we demand it and it makes our lives better. > Uber's success is basically because they were able to push all of the legacy costs of public transit onto taxpayers and claiming that they're more efficient. It's VC-funded bus routes but using a phone. DISRUPTION. Absolutely wrong. I use Uber/Lyft every day. I don't have a car. Uber/Lyft are nothing like a bus route - not even close. To even suggest that they're similar to a traditional bus service route is to reveal that you haven't used the services in any meaningful way. They are absolutely 100% disruptive (even more so if you're a woman and safety is important to you). I'm telling you, ride sharing has changed how I get around in cities, period. There's a reason drivers drive for these services. Ride sharing is creating a whole class of jobs that have a very important role to play in society. Stay-at-home moms that use Uber/Lyft to supplement their income while being able to have flexible work. Students that are just getting started in their career and are using Uber/Lyft to sustain themselves in the interim. Retired veterans who don't have any other way to earn a steady income. Deaf people who can't find jobs otherwise. Immigrants who are trying to build up a support base for themselves. The list goes on. Talk to the drivers, this kind of work is a big boon to a lot of people. Now, should these be the only career options for people? Obviously not. I think that's where most people's concerns are valid. We can't create a society where this is the only type of work available. But can this type of work exist alongside other meaningful options? Of course!

jakecopp 8y ago

"...operational infrastructure and excellence it takes to scale a marketplace like Uber's to 4 billion rides..." Nope! In the grand scheme of things, building an app, and some backend software while maintaining bunch of servers doesn't compare to building: [1] - 46 BART stations: 17 surface, 14 elevated and 15 subway stations. - 669 revenue vehicles - 112 miles of railway track - a police force with 206 legally sworn-in law enforcement officers and 90 other staff members - a wireless network that supplies cell phone service to riders underground BART isn't even that good - I live in Sydney and we are always complaining about our double-decker dead-silent very clean commuter and city rail. Buzzfeed [2] even thinks our train system is from the future! I love software - I want to make a career out of it, but we can't forget "real" engineering fields and the effort that goes into them. [1]: https://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/04/us/san-francisco-bay-area-rapid-transit-fast-facts/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/04/us/san-francisco-bay-area... [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/sydney/comments/8rulvn/mfw_americans_think_sydneys_public_transport/ https://www.reddit.com/r/sydney/comments/8rulvn/mfw_american...

vincentmarle 8y ago
Structural engineering is the art of solving the known knowns, which basically reduces the complexity to budgeting/resource planning. Startups need to solve the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns, which is inherently more challenging and difficult.