4 ms·

There's $10B in TSLA short positions, when the numbers get this big its not unthinkable.

danhak 8y ago
Close to $14.5B now: https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla/short-interest https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla/short-interest
- csours 8y ago
  Serious question: How much are these shorts pushing UP the price of the stock?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - acjacobson 8y ago
    Shorts in volume should do the opposite and act as a drag on the price because they represent shares sold today vs. in the future. That creates downward pressure on demand as the more people who sell today, fewer remain who are willing to buy at the same price.
    - dkbrk 8y ago
      That may be the case when the short volume is increasing, but at this point, with the stock price rising, traders should be looking to exit their short position. If anything, with such a large volume short, a short squeeze is a serious likelihood in the near future.
      - mcv 8y ago
        I've been thinking the same thing. A short may be a sell, but it's also a guarantee that someone is going to buy in the future.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> There's $10B in TSLA short positions, when the numbers get this big its not unthinkable Yes, it's unthinkable. If a $10 billion short were to even marginally pay off, regulators would dig deep. Anyone with that kind of cash on hand is savvy enough to know that. Sabotaging a visible company, with lots of stockholders and lenders and bankers standing to benefit from the company's success, to pay off a short is something that sounds plausible in fiction but is boneheadedly moronic in real life.
- GreenPlastic 8y ago
  You seem to have a great deal of faith in regulators. In most cases, they're under resourced, outgunned by corporate lawyers, and may have a bunch of different incentives to look the other way. Even if they do find egregious wrongdoing, many times bad actors will get a slap on the wrist or it'll be blamed on a single individual. If you're curious, read Fooling Some People All of the Time by David Einhorn, who ironically, is short Tesla.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  Why would they dig deep? Tesla has had many documented, self-inflicted execution issues with nearly every single one of its mass-produced cars. Tesla's done far more damage to itself than a single saboteur ever could.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > Why would they dig deep? Whenever an outsized high-risk position pays off, multiple regulators--at the SRO, state and federal levels--investigate. Mostly for insider trading. Sometimes in response to investor complaints or broker arbitration proceedings. These are well-paid professionals at the SEC, CFTC, FINRA, state financial services regulators, Federal Reserve, OCC, Treasury, and a bajillion other acronym agencies. Some of them are there while they wait for something better in industry. Many eye an administration appointment or political office. These are motivated people with comprehensive data across multiple markets, all tied to the natural persons behind accounts. Corollary: One will notice that most insider trading busts happen to mid-level employees at publicly-traded companies. Not traders or hedge fund managers. A large part of this comes down to the general public having no idea how competent securities regulators are. So while someone in the industry would never e.g. text about insider trading before buying out of the money options in a relative's name, Midwestern CFO's daughter sees nothing risky about that.
twayalways 8y ago
>There's $10B in TSLA short positions, when the numbers get this big its not unthinkable. Once again, much of the short interest is not naked shorting, but is in fact people and institutions hedging their long bet on a stock that is very volatile.

Close to $14.5B now: https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla/short-interest https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla/short-interest

csours 8y ago
Serious question: How much are these shorts pushing UP the price of the stock?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- acjacobson 8y ago
  Shorts in volume should do the opposite and act as a drag on the price because they represent shares sold today vs. in the future. That creates downward pressure on demand as the more people who sell today, fewer remain who are willing to buy at the same price.
  - dkbrk 8y ago
    That may be the case when the short volume is increasing, but at this point, with the stock price rising, traders should be looking to exit their short position. If anything, with such a large volume short, a short squeeze is a serious likelihood in the near future.
    - mcv 8y ago
      I've been thinking the same thing. A short may be a sell, but it's also a guarantee that someone is going to buy in the future.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> There's $10B in TSLA short positions, when the numbers get this big its not unthinkable Yes, it's unthinkable. If a $10 billion short were to even marginally pay off, regulators would dig deep. Anyone with that kind of cash on hand is savvy enough to know that. Sabotaging a visible company, with lots of stockholders and lenders and bankers standing to benefit from the company's success, to pay off a short is something that sounds plausible in fiction but is boneheadedly moronic in real life.

GreenPlastic 8y ago
You seem to have a great deal of faith in regulators. In most cases, they're under resourced, outgunned by corporate lawyers, and may have a bunch of different incentives to look the other way. Even if they do find egregious wrongdoing, many times bad actors will get a slap on the wrist or it'll be blamed on a single individual. If you're curious, read Fooling Some People All of the Time by David Einhorn, who ironically, is short Tesla.
gamblor956 8y ago
Why would they dig deep? Tesla has had many documented, self-inflicted execution issues with nearly every single one of its mass-produced cars. Tesla's done far more damage to itself than a single saboteur ever could.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > Why would they dig deep? Whenever an outsized high-risk position pays off, multiple regulators--at the SRO, state and federal levels--investigate. Mostly for insider trading. Sometimes in response to investor complaints or broker arbitration proceedings. These are well-paid professionals at the SEC, CFTC, FINRA, state financial services regulators, Federal Reserve, OCC, Treasury, and a bajillion other acronym agencies. Some of them are there while they wait for something better in industry. Many eye an administration appointment or political office. These are motivated people with comprehensive data across multiple markets, all tied to the natural persons behind accounts. Corollary: One will notice that most insider trading busts happen to mid-level employees at publicly-traded companies. Not traders or hedge fund managers. A large part of this comes down to the general public having no idea how competent securities regulators are. So while someone in the industry would never e.g. text about insider trading before buying out of the money options in a relative's name, Midwestern CFO's daughter sees nothing risky about that.

twayalways 8y ago

>There's $10B in TSLA short positions, when the numbers get this big its not unthinkable. Once again, much of the short interest is not naked shorting, but is in fact people and institutions hedging their long bet on a stock that is very volatile.