4 ms·

Some context; as someone who pledged in 2012. I'd hope the OP doesn't come off as dismissive to the "hard unglamorous" stuff, since I see this as a separate is

Some context; as someone who pledged in 2012. I'd hope the OP doesn't come off as dismissive to the "hard unglamorous" stuff, since I see this as a separate issue. For me at least, the problem is largely that in the last 6 years, we've gotten PILES of UX revisions, all of which favor form over function to a laughable degree. This map, while pretty, is fractionally as useful as a flattened stretchy-grid-auto-layouted hairball. It lacks basic features like being able to _zoom out to actually see the whole volume without rotating_, let alone functionality in companion apps to competitor games[0], not to mention that to render the UX my significantly overpowered dev box is chugging away quite hard. Meanwhile, the core gameplay systems have, by many fans perceptions, degraded in quality, and prior deliverable dates have been slipped to levels that would get me fired in my position. Again, I don't want to sell short the difficulty of the engine work they're trying to do, and frankly I should probably keep separate my grievances about deadline-meeting (although that certainly throws salt on the metaphorical wound). But to my eyes this is in the same vein as the complaints I see about other web products, "you have something good, polish but then don't fix what aint broke", while echoing a trope Star Citizen inflicted on itself from its very first "Iron Man" HUD design.[1] (reviled for being piles of overdesigned spinny widgets, and very little functionality). [0]http://evemaps.dotlan.net http://evemaps.dotlan.net [1]http://i.imgur.com/4gMaYpu.gif http://i.imgur.com/4gMaYpu.gif

empath75 8y ago
It’s pretty obvious that they never intend to release a game at this point.
- wavefunction 8y ago
  I... disagree?
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
  I completely sympathize with where I think you're coming from, but the conversation will be more interesting if we avoid hyperbole.
- star-castle 8y ago
  They've already released "a game". The ultimate failure will come in the form an announcement: it's done! tadaaa! click here to purchase! But the SC as imagined by the 1000th "what money is still coming in? promise something! promise more!" new stretch goal, that will never be released.
  - ehnto 8y ago
    They have said in an interview that they intend every dollar pledged to go into development, so in some ways what you are saying makes sense. They do have an actual roadmap now though so that's promising. Also SQ42 will come out at some point between now and the Star Citizens launch so they will have a hype cycle they need to release at the right time for.
- ehnto 8y ago
  That must be why they hired 500 people and keep spending all their money on development instead of fancy holidays.
sgift 8y ago
> This map, while pretty, is fractionally as useful as a flattened stretchy-grid-auto-layouted hairball. It lacks basic features like being able to _zoom out to actually see the whole volume without rotating_, l I can zoom out and see the whole volume just fine. Don't select a specific system, use the mouse wheel. It works exactly as I expect a star map to work and it looks beautiful. > Meanwhile, the core gameplay systems have, by many fans perceptions, degraded in quality, and prior deliverable dates have been slipped to levels that would get me fired in my position. I really have my doubts that the people who cry the loudest are really "fans" or even pledged. There are real problems (e.g. the deliverable date thing, which they now reigned in a bit by doing a new feature release every three month), but many of the so called criticisms are just crying wolf or repeating old accusations which don't even fit anymore (see one of the posts below which states that they add stretch goal after stretch goal with new money ... there hasn't been a new stretch goal for a long time and they made clear that there won't be. All new money goes to existing targets)
- existencebox 8y ago
  > I can zoom out and see the whole volume just fine. Don't select a specific system, use the mouse wheel. It works exactly as I expect a star map to work and it looks beautiful. I was using the scroll wheel, nothing selected (from first load), but from most angles systems at the edge are clipping on my system. From the initial view, for me, min, hades, taranis are all below the bottom, and a bunch off to the left. I can take a screenshot if it's really in doubt. (I'm on a new machine now than my initial post, but still chrome. Unfortunately this also gave me a chance to realize a nauseating back and forth swaying in the background if I leave this open too long in my peripheral... I can't honestly understand why one would chose that) > I really have my doubts that the people who cry the loudest... From a relatively disinterested point of view (Having slowly fallen out of interest over the last few years, from a point of playing every patch with anticipation) yes there's a lot of love to hate on SC, hell, even EvE has an "unofficial war" with them recently because of some ship design hubbub. That being said, there's also a lot of defensiveness about it, despite some very real issues. Back when I was far more involved, the subreddit could get QUITE cheerleady. Like many things nowadays there's a wonderful bit of polarization involved, I'd (riskily) make the sober statement of "They made enough questionable judgement calls, and had enough of a bad trend of meeting goals that I lost interest, and in that context this is both preconception-reinforcing and underwhelming." As said in my OP, just giving my own context, others are free to disagree. As an addendum, the stretch goals thing is a good example of the reality distortion field, since yes, there aren't "nth new stretch goals" now, but some of their older, more ad-hoc stretch goals (100 systems at launch) are looking to be... interpreted flexibly, shall we say; so honestly I don't think it's super black and white. (I do think the claims that it's outright fraud are disingenuous) A fun bit of history as well, lest I fall under accusation of not being a fan, the first post on this account and my reason for upgrading from just reading HN was to ask community opinion of pursuing a risky "dream job" over a stable corporate bigCo job, the dream job was at CIG. If you're curious, THAT context adds even more flavor, as with hindsight some warning signs from 2013 ended up being apocryphal to my current perception.[0] [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7294786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7294786

empath75 8y ago

It’s pretty obvious that they never intend to release a game at this point.

wavefunction 8y ago
I... disagree?
DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
I completely sympathize with where I think you're coming from, but the conversation will be more interesting if we avoid hyperbole.
star-castle 8y ago
They've already released "a game". The ultimate failure will come in the form an announcement: it's done! tadaaa! click here to purchase! But the SC as imagined by the 1000th "what money is still coming in? promise something! promise more!" new stretch goal, that will never be released.
- ehnto 8y ago
  They have said in an interview that they intend every dollar pledged to go into development, so in some ways what you are saying makes sense. They do have an actual roadmap now though so that's promising. Also SQ42 will come out at some point between now and the Star Citizens launch so they will have a hype cycle they need to release at the right time for.
ehnto 8y ago
That must be why they hired 500 people and keep spending all their money on development instead of fancy holidays.

sgift 8y ago

> This map, while pretty, is fractionally as useful as a flattened stretchy-grid-auto-layouted hairball. It lacks basic features like being able to _zoom out to actually see the whole volume without rotating_, l I can zoom out and see the whole volume just fine. Don't select a specific system, use the mouse wheel. It works exactly as I expect a star map to work and it looks beautiful. > Meanwhile, the core gameplay systems have, by many fans perceptions, degraded in quality, and prior deliverable dates have been slipped to levels that would get me fired in my position. I really have my doubts that the people who cry the loudest are really "fans" or even pledged. There are real problems (e.g. the deliverable date thing, which they now reigned in a bit by doing a new feature release every three month), but many of the so called criticisms are just crying wolf or repeating old accusations which don't even fit anymore (see one of the posts below which states that they add stretch goal after stretch goal with new money ... there hasn't been a new stretch goal for a long time and they made clear that there won't be. All new money goes to existing targets)

existencebox 8y ago
> I can zoom out and see the whole volume just fine. Don't select a specific system, use the mouse wheel. It works exactly as I expect a star map to work and it looks beautiful. I was using the scroll wheel, nothing selected (from first load), but from most angles systems at the edge are clipping on my system. From the initial view, for me, min, hades, taranis are all below the bottom, and a bunch off to the left. I can take a screenshot if it's really in doubt. (I'm on a new machine now than my initial post, but still chrome. Unfortunately this also gave me a chance to realize a nauseating back and forth swaying in the background if I leave this open too long in my peripheral... I can't honestly understand why one would chose that) > I really have my doubts that the people who cry the loudest... From a relatively disinterested point of view (Having slowly fallen out of interest over the last few years, from a point of playing every patch with anticipation) yes there's a lot of love to hate on SC, hell, even EvE has an "unofficial war" with them recently because of some ship design hubbub. That being said, there's also a lot of defensiveness about it, despite some very real issues. Back when I was far more involved, the subreddit could get QUITE cheerleady. Like many things nowadays there's a wonderful bit of polarization involved, I'd (riskily) make the sober statement of "They made enough questionable judgement calls, and had enough of a bad trend of meeting goals that I lost interest, and in that context this is both preconception-reinforcing and underwhelming." As said in my OP, just giving my own context, others are free to disagree. As an addendum, the stretch goals thing is a good example of the reality distortion field, since yes, there aren't "nth new stretch goals" now, but some of their older, more ad-hoc stretch goals (100 systems at launch) are looking to be... interpreted flexibly, shall we say; so honestly I don't think it's super black and white. (I do think the claims that it's outright fraud are disingenuous) A fun bit of history as well, lest I fall under accusation of not being a fan, the first post on this account and my reason for upgrading from just reading HN was to ask community opinion of pursuing a risky "dream job" over a stable corporate bigCo job, the dream job was at CIG. If you're curious, THAT context adds even more flavor, as with hindsight some warning signs from 2013 ended up being apocryphal to my current perception.[0] [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7294786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7294786