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Lots of companies made electric cars at the turn of last century, Edison was not the only one nor the first. Electric cars were marketed to women as they had f

by bugsy 16y ago

Lots of companies made electric cars at the turn of last century, Edison was not the only one nor the first. Electric cars were marketed to women as they had far less maintenance required and were not as noisy or as dirty. At the same time a century ago that electric cars were available, you could also buy a number of gasoline cars that got 40-60 miles per gallon.

S_A_P 16y ago
I think that is the big oversight in a lot of green tech. Sure we could make items that have super impressive green specifications, but making them to achieve the same/similar performance to the not so green counterparts is the tricky part.
- bugsy 16y ago
  Yes, this is a good point. There do exist normal cars now that have good performance and get good mileage, around 60mpg. Most of these are not available in the US due to "safety regulations" unique to the US, proposed and written by oil company lobbyists, which effectively require that cars sold in the US be very heavy. On the electric car side, the electricity is coming from things like burning coal and oil, or natural gas which we will run out of in a few years. The cars use batteries that contain highly toxic chemicals that are somewhat difficult to extract from the earth, and are done using strip mining. And the batteries lose their capacity after a few years of use and have to be replaced with a new set costing $30-$50,000 at least every five years. But bring up any of this and there is a lot of handwaving and claims that battery technology is getting better. Sure it's getting a tiny bit better, but it's not in the direction of batteries made of air or water or harmless inexpensive materials, and the charge capacity and lifespan are not so dramatically changing that it changes any of the basic dynamics of this technology. In short, even the super green techs don't seem so green when you start really looking at the details. In addition, we have a fetishization of things like electric cars, when the issue of efficient public transport, or getting rid of suburbs so people don't have to commute, are completely ignored even though the gains from this would be massively higher by several orders of magnitude. No, we must have electric cars for each person to drive alone by himself 30 miles to and fro work each morning. That is the only option. I have preferred to live close enough to walk to work and have often managed this. I am often told this is an unrealistic expectation and I need to get real or get with the program. Including by people claiming to be environmentalists, many of whom drive giant gas guzzlers because of some perceived need. Someone walking to work each day is getting infinite miles to the gallon and is going to live longer and have fewer health problems and costs as they age. This is universally considered a non-solution compared to toxic batteries and recharging them using non-renewable resources.
ck2 16y ago
They got 40-60 miles per gallon because they were going half of today's highway speed limit. See my note above about wind resistance at higher speeds. If you drove 30mph on the highway with today's cars you'd also get 40mpg+ (and a $100 ticket!)

by bugsy 16y ago

S_A_P 16y ago

I think that is the big oversight in a lot of green tech. Sure we could make items that have super impressive green specifications, but making them to achieve the same/similar performance to the not so green counterparts is the tricky part.

bugsy 16y ago
Yes, this is a good point. There do exist normal cars now that have good performance and get good mileage, around 60mpg. Most of these are not available in the US due to "safety regulations" unique to the US, proposed and written by oil company lobbyists, which effectively require that cars sold in the US be very heavy. On the electric car side, the electricity is coming from things like burning coal and oil, or natural gas which we will run out of in a few years. The cars use batteries that contain highly toxic chemicals that are somewhat difficult to extract from the earth, and are done using strip mining. And the batteries lose their capacity after a few years of use and have to be replaced with a new set costing $30-$50,000 at least every five years. But bring up any of this and there is a lot of handwaving and claims that battery technology is getting better. Sure it's getting a tiny bit better, but it's not in the direction of batteries made of air or water or harmless inexpensive materials, and the charge capacity and lifespan are not so dramatically changing that it changes any of the basic dynamics of this technology. In short, even the super green techs don't seem so green when you start really looking at the details. In addition, we have a fetishization of things like electric cars, when the issue of efficient public transport, or getting rid of suburbs so people don't have to commute, are completely ignored even though the gains from this would be massively higher by several orders of magnitude. No, we must have electric cars for each person to drive alone by himself 30 miles to and fro work each morning. That is the only option. I have preferred to live close enough to walk to work and have often managed this. I am often told this is an unrealistic expectation and I need to get real or get with the program. Including by people claiming to be environmentalists, many of whom drive giant gas guzzlers because of some perceived need. Someone walking to work each day is getting infinite miles to the gallon and is going to live longer and have fewer health problems and costs as they age. This is universally considered a non-solution compared to toxic batteries and recharging them using non-renewable resources.

ck2 16y ago

They got 40-60 miles per gallon because they were going half of today's highway speed limit. See my note above about wind resistance at higher speeds. If you drove 30mph on the highway with today's cars you'd also get 40mpg+ (and a $100 ticket!)