6 ms·

Not that anyone cares or asked what I think but I wouldn't be surprised if Elon ends up surpassing Crazie Eddie Antar [0] as far as fraud goes. (I have no idea

by yasp 8y ago

Not that anyone cares or asked what I think but I wouldn't be surprised if Elon ends up surpassing Crazie Eddie Antar [0] as far as fraud goes. (I have no idea whether he is a fraud. He just strikes me as likely a fraud.) [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Eddie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Eddie

nodesocket 8y ago
I see a lot of resentment and "hate" on HN about Elon and quite honestly I don't understand where it is coming from. Where are the facts that Elon/Tesla is one gigantic fraud? Where is the scientific proof?
- yasp 8y ago
  I hope Elon is real. I want Elon to be real. I just fear that he isn't. I don't have "scientific proof" for you.
- drak0n1c 8y ago
  The media's opinion of Elon has turned sour lately due to his criticism of bloggers and tabloid articles (ie Daily Beast). That is starting to shape the minds of those who follow the media very closely.
  - nodesocket 8y ago
    Just because the media has turned doesn't mean his criticism of them is invalid or incorrect. Negatively in news is at absurd levels... Peddling outrage sells.
- badwolf 8y ago
  >I don't understand where it is coming from ~$10B in shorts...
- jcranmer 8y ago
  For me, personally, I strongly dislike the Hyperloop and Loop proposals. I can provide lots of details about why these systems suck as public transit options (and I've done so in the past several times), but there has tended to be an annoying cohort that rejects any and all criticism, no matter how reasoned it is. While I don't particularly pay attention to Tesla and Space X, I've noticed that there is similarly a very vocal cohort that responds to criticism by attacking detractors as shills for short sellers/Big Oil/Big Auto/Big Space, which certainly fuels schadenfreude for me and make me want to root against Tesla just to see that vocal cohort shut up. It should also be pointed out that there was recently a very public revelation about a Silicon Valley startup that made big noise about disrupting a stagnant industry whose technology was accused as being impossible which turned out to be a massive fraud. Tesla is a company which has certainly failed to meet many of its projected milestones, and whose public stature is partially based on a major technology which has failed to deliver so far (Autopilot). Undoubtedly, many people are liable to find the comparison too similar for comfort.
  - kitsunesoba 8y ago
    Personally speaking I’ve been a fan of Musk’s endeavors simply because they tend to actually move where other options creep along painstakingly slowly, get stalled, or are canned entirely. Focusing on the loop stuff specifically, even if it’s not the optimal transport solution it’s better than the alternative “better” solution that will be in a state of decay by the time it’s finished or never see the light of day at all. Musk doesn’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good and I think that’s important in an age where it’s more normal for major infrastructure projects to collapse on themselves or otherwise get gummed up indefinitely than it is for them to succeed. I don’t endorse his behavior on Twitter lately but I do feel that the efforts of his companies have merit.
    - mmjaa 8y ago
      I'm not at all interested in the Musk cult factor, but I think that all the critics are far too easily blinded by their own position and fail to see the incredible results that have already been attained, in spite of incredible odds against. Musk may tweak peoples jealousy buttons - and I truly think that jealousy of him personally is behind a lot of the criticism - but on the other hand, there is so much progress behind him that its almost ridiculous to hear the critics pulling hard on whatever loose strings they can find. I mean, the criticism may be warranted - but I think a great deal of respect and honest attribution is warranted, too. The statistics as to what has been accomplished as a result of Musks' crazy ideals demonstrate that, sometimes it seems, to push the human species forward you have to be a little crazy, outside the norms of the collective. ITT, people who haven't yet recognised this fact ..
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
abc_lisper 8y ago
Let me guess, you have never driven a Tesla, have you?
- legolas2412 8y ago
  Let me guess, if you had a BMW with similar interior, and similar production quality, you won't be a fan of it? Tesla fandom is based on futurism. Take regular driver assistance, call it autonomous self driving driverless cars and make a cult of personality around Elon musk. If BMW sold substandard cars at a higher price than comparative cars, and had fanboys buying it, and yet be rewarded by the stock market for making losses, BMW would be making Model S/X all year long.
- Fins 8y ago
  What, is it being pulled by magical unicorns, while you blissfully float on a cloud of unicorn farts? Eh, no, it's a car. Not particularly great or luxurious at that.
  - abc_lisper 8y ago
    I heard this defense before. It's the same as saying Mac is just a computer and iPhone is just a phone.
    - Fins 8y ago
      "Defense" seems to be a strange choice of word here. And seriously, iPhone isn't just a phone, seriously?
      - abc_lisper 8y ago
        Yeah, defense as in defending an argument. > And seriously, iPhone isn't just a phone, seriously? Not sure how old you are, but if you want just a phone look at feature phones, seriously ;)
        Fins 8y ago

by yasp 8y ago

nodesocket 8y ago

I see a lot of resentment and "hate" on HN about Elon and quite honestly I don't understand where it is coming from. Where are the facts that Elon/Tesla is one gigantic fraud? Where is the scientific proof?

yasp 8y ago
I hope Elon is real. I want Elon to be real. I just fear that he isn't. I don't have "scientific proof" for you.
drak0n1c 8y ago
The media's opinion of Elon has turned sour lately due to his criticism of bloggers and tabloid articles (ie Daily Beast). That is starting to shape the minds of those who follow the media very closely.
- nodesocket 8y ago
  Just because the media has turned doesn't mean his criticism of them is invalid or incorrect. Negatively in news is at absurd levels... Peddling outrage sells.
badwolf 8y ago
>I don't understand where it is coming from ~$10B in shorts...
jcranmer 8y ago
For me, personally, I strongly dislike the Hyperloop and Loop proposals. I can provide lots of details about why these systems suck as public transit options (and I've done so in the past several times), but there has tended to be an annoying cohort that rejects any and all criticism, no matter how reasoned it is. While I don't particularly pay attention to Tesla and Space X, I've noticed that there is similarly a very vocal cohort that responds to criticism by attacking detractors as shills for short sellers/Big Oil/Big Auto/Big Space, which certainly fuels schadenfreude for me and make me want to root against Tesla just to see that vocal cohort shut up. It should also be pointed out that there was recently a very public revelation about a Silicon Valley startup that made big noise about disrupting a stagnant industry whose technology was accused as being impossible which turned out to be a massive fraud. Tesla is a company which has certainly failed to meet many of its projected milestones, and whose public stature is partially based on a major technology which has failed to deliver so far (Autopilot). Undoubtedly, many people are liable to find the comparison too similar for comfort.
- kitsunesoba 8y ago
  Personally speaking I’ve been a fan of Musk’s endeavors simply because they tend to actually move where other options creep along painstakingly slowly, get stalled, or are canned entirely. Focusing on the loop stuff specifically, even if it’s not the optimal transport solution it’s better than the alternative “better” solution that will be in a state of decay by the time it’s finished or never see the light of day at all. Musk doesn’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good and I think that’s important in an age where it’s more normal for major infrastructure projects to collapse on themselves or otherwise get gummed up indefinitely than it is for them to succeed. I don’t endorse his behavior on Twitter lately but I do feel that the efforts of his companies have merit.
  - mmjaa 8y ago
    I'm not at all interested in the Musk cult factor, but I think that all the critics are far too easily blinded by their own position and fail to see the incredible results that have already been attained, in spite of incredible odds against. Musk may tweak peoples jealousy buttons - and I truly think that jealousy of him personally is behind a lot of the criticism - but on the other hand, there is so much progress behind him that its almost ridiculous to hear the critics pulling hard on whatever loose strings they can find. I mean, the criticism may be warranted - but I think a great deal of respect and honest attribution is warranted, too. The statistics as to what has been accomplished as a result of Musks' crazy ideals demonstrate that, sometimes it seems, to push the human species forward you have to be a little crazy, outside the norms of the collective. ITT, people who haven't yet recognised this fact ..
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

abc_lisper 8y ago

Let me guess, you have never driven a Tesla, have you?

legolas2412 8y ago
Let me guess, if you had a BMW with similar interior, and similar production quality, you won't be a fan of it? Tesla fandom is based on futurism. Take regular driver assistance, call it autonomous self driving driverless cars and make a cult of personality around Elon musk. If BMW sold substandard cars at a higher price than comparative cars, and had fanboys buying it, and yet be rewarded by the stock market for making losses, BMW would be making Model S/X all year long.
Fins 8y ago
What, is it being pulled by magical unicorns, while you blissfully float on a cloud of unicorn farts? Eh, no, it's a car. Not particularly great or luxurious at that.
- abc_lisper 8y ago
  I heard this defense before. It's the same as saying Mac is just a computer and iPhone is just a phone.
  - Fins 8y ago
    "Defense" seems to be a strange choice of word here. And seriously, iPhone isn't just a phone, seriously?
    - abc_lisper 8y ago
      Yeah, defense as in defending an argument. > And seriously, iPhone isn't just a phone, seriously? Not sure how old you are, but if you want just a phone look at feature phones, seriously ;)
      - Fins 8y ago