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> However, working with ICE seems directly at odds with a company that depends on immigration and guest workers to fill out its workforce Can we please stop co
by ng12 8y ago
> However, working with ICE seems directly at odds with a company that depends on immigration and guest workers to fill out its workforce
Can we please stop conflating legal and illegal immigration? Microsoft is dependent on legal immigration through the H1B and EB programs. Furthermore, there are many business who are dependent on illegal immigration and those deserve to be shutdown for exploiting a system of indentured servitude.
- mikeash 8y agoICE is misbehaving badly in some ways and scaring legal immigrants. As always, it’s not the case that if you’ve done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear. ICE has deported actual US citizens who have the wrong sort of look, never mind “mere” legal residents.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- ng12 8y agoDo you really think H1B workers waiting in a 20-year queue for a Green Card are really scared off by ICEs actions at the border? If anything it's reaffirming the importance of obtaining citizenship legally.
- mikeash 8y agoDo you really think any brown person in the US who has been paying any attention is not worried about getting improperly deported by ICE? Again, they’ve deported actual citizens before.
- malvosenior 8y agoThis is an incredibly racist thing to say. Many "brown people" worked hard to come into this country legally and actively oppose illegal immigration. No one I know who legally immigrated to the US is worried at all about being deported, that's just FUD.
- mikeash 8y agoIt’s not racist to point out the systematic racism of a federal agency. Or do you think ICE is deporting white citizens? My friend’s wife finally got her citizenship because of all this nonsense. My wife (though not brown) is seriously considering it as well. There are many others. At this point, opposing ICE is not about being in favor of illegal immigration, it’s about being against an abusive government agency. Edit: to anyone doubting that ICE is racist, I propose an experiment. Leaving all of your identification at home (perfectly legal), ride the bus to, say, Nogales, AZ and then back home. Now go ask a hispanic-looking US citizen friend to join you on this journey and see what they say.
- malvosenior 8y agoWhat is racist is classifying all “brown people” together and speaking for Hispanics. You should stop doing that.
- mikeash 8y agoI’m not the one doing the classifying. But of course, in 2018, targeting and abusing people based on their looks or ancestry is considered “not racism,” while calling out people who do it is classified as “racism.”
- ergothus 8y agoNot FUD to those to whom it happened. Can you clarify your arguments? To say that some/many immigrants oppose illegal immigration says nothing about whether power and profiling is abused, and your 3rd hand anecdote over legal immigrants having no fear of misidentification from a (I think we'd agree) provenly overburdened system does not do much convincing. It is quite possible and even reasonable to have a goal and hate/fear the methods that some use to achieve those ends.
- s2g 8y agoIt's not racist at all, it's the reality of the situation. I don't worry about it that much. I'm much more worried that would end up arrested and held without trial for however long ice feels like it only to be deported. The deported part is not that big a deal, since I'm from Canada. The idea that any small fuckup on my part could turn into months of hell because the US federal government doesn't really consider me a person, that scares me.
- diebeforei485 8y agoThey aren’t scaring any legal immigrants except those who have their relatives living with them without authorization. And that population tends to have used family-based or diversity-based pathways. Very rarely do employment-based immigrants live in mixed-status families. You don’t seem to be aware of how distinct the different immigrant communities can be.
- mikeash 8y agoI mean, I know such people, and am even married to one. ICE is not exactly being careful to only ever go after people who are here without authorization.
- diebeforei485 8y agoI’m an actual employment-based immigrant. I have literally never heard of any other employment-based immigrant (and I know plenty, safe to assume more than you do) who was randomly arrested by ICE.
- bdhess 8y agoI think of H1B— or any immigration that’s tied to employment status—as a form of indenture as well. Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s ethical.
- ng12 8y agoOh, absolutely. But letting illegal immigrants into the country as a cheap source of labor, knowing that they can be deported whenever the winds change, is even less ethical. At least H1B workers have some semblance of protection for the term of their employment.