6 ms·

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, perhaps a short-seller paid an employee to sabotage. It is not out of the realm of possibility, especially

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, perhaps a short-seller paid an employee to sabotage. It is not out of the realm of possibility, especially since $TSLA is at a whopping 33% float short.

yasp 8y ago
Not that anyone cares or asked what I think but I wouldn't be surprised if Elon ends up surpassing Crazie Eddie Antar [0] as far as fraud goes. (I have no idea whether he is a fraud. He just strikes me as likely a fraud.) [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Eddie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Eddie
- nodesocket 8y ago
  I see a lot of resentment and "hate" on HN about Elon and quite honestly I don't understand where it is coming from. Where are the facts that Elon/Tesla is one gigantic fraud? Where is the scientific proof?
  - yasp 8y ago
    I hope Elon is real. I want Elon to be real. I just fear that he isn't. I don't have "scientific proof" for you.
  - drak0n1c 8y ago
    The media's opinion of Elon has turned sour lately due to his criticism of bloggers and tabloid articles (ie Daily Beast). That is starting to shape the minds of those who follow the media very closely.
    - nodesocket 8y ago
      Just because the media has turned doesn't mean his criticism of them is invalid or incorrect. Negatively in news is at absurd levels... Peddling outrage sells.
  - badwolf 8y ago
    >I don't understand where it is coming from ~$10B in shorts...
  - jcranmer 8y ago
    For me, personally, I strongly dislike the Hyperloop and Loop proposals. I can provide lots of details about why these systems suck as public transit options (and I've done so in the past several times), but there has tended to be an annoying cohort that rejects any and all criticism, no matter how reasoned it is. While I don't particularly pay attention to Tesla and Space X, I've noticed that there is similarly a very vocal cohort that responds to criticism by attacking detractors as shills for short sellers/Big Oil/Big Auto/Big Space, which certainly fuels schadenfreude for me and make me want to root against Tesla just to see that vocal cohort shut up. It should also be pointed out that there was recently a very public revelation about a Silicon Valley startup that made big noise about disrupting a stagnant industry whose technology was accused as being impossible which turned out to be a massive fraud. Tesla is a company which has certainly failed to meet many of its projected milestones, and whose public stature is partially based on a major technology which has failed to deliver so far (Autopilot). Undoubtedly, many people are liable to find the comparison too similar for comfort.
    - kitsunesoba 8y ago
      Personally speaking I’ve been a fan of Musk’s endeavors simply because they tend to actually move where other options creep along painstakingly slowly, get stalled, or are canned entirely. Focusing on the loop stuff specifically, even if it’s not the optimal transport solution it’s better than the alternative “better” solution that will be in a state of decay by the time it’s finished or never see the light of day at all. Musk doesn’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good and I think that’s important in an age where it’s more normal for major infrastructure projects to collapse on themselves or otherwise get gummed up indefinitely than it is for them to succeed. I don’t endorse his behavior on Twitter lately but I do feel that the efforts of his companies have merit.
      - mmjaa 8y ago
        I'm not at all interested in the Musk cult factor, but I think that all the critics are far too easily blinded by their own position and fail to see the incredible results that have already been attained, in spite of incredible odds against. Musk may tweak peoples jealousy buttons - and I truly think that jealousy of him personally is behind a lot of the criticism - but on the other hand, there is so much progress behind him that its almost ridiculous to hear the critics pulling hard on whatever loose strings they can find. I mean, the criticism may be warranted - but I think a great deal of respect and honest attribution is warranted, too. The statistics as to what has been accomplished as a result of Musks' crazy ideals demonstrate that, sometimes it seems, to push the human species forward you have to be a little crazy, outside the norms of the collective. ITT, people who haven't yet recognised this fact ..
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- abc_lisper 8y ago
  Let me guess, you have never driven a Tesla, have you?
  - legolas2412 8y ago
    Let me guess, if you had a BMW with similar interior, and similar production quality, you won't be a fan of it? Tesla fandom is based on futurism. Take regular driver assistance, call it autonomous self driving driverless cars and make a cult of personality around Elon musk. If BMW sold substandard cars at a higher price than comparative cars, and had fanboys buying it, and yet be rewarded by the stock market for making losses, BMW would be making Model S/X all year long.
  - Fins 8y ago
    What, is it being pulled by magical unicorns, while you blissfully float on a cloud of unicorn farts? Eh, no, it's a car. Not particularly great or luxurious at that.
    - abc_lisper 8y ago
      I heard this defense before. It's the same as saying Mac is just a computer and iPhone is just a phone.
      - Fins 8y ago
        "Defense" seems to be a strange choice of word here. And seriously, iPhone isn't just a phone, seriously?
        abc_lisper 8y ago
        Yeah, defense as in defending an argument. > And seriously, iPhone isn't just a phone, seriously? Not sure how old you are, but if you want just a phone look at feature phones, seriously ;)
        Fins 8y ago
woodandsteel 8y ago
This was my thought exactly. Sounds like they hired an ex-CIA field operative who was expert at what he was doing.
- woodandsteel 8y ago
  Further thought: if they know who they guy is and press criminal charges, they could pressure him to reveal who was behind it.
- lovich 8y ago
  >"This included making direct code changes to the Tesla Manufacturing Operating System under false usernames and exporting large amounts of highly sensitive Tesla data to unknown third parties." What in here indicates ex-CIA operative to you? Theres no need to add any conspiracy around it. Adding a commit with a different username is incredibly trivial to anyone who can run commit with the command line, i.e. 99% of software engineers. As for exporting data to unknown third parties, I have seen interns do this by accident. Its not complicated or needs rare skills to do a lot of damage internally. If Tesla runs fast and loose with ideas like their PR pieces suggest, I doubt their security is incredibly top notch in terms of locking down internal threats either
  - woodandsteel 8y ago
    What matters is motivation. A person who is trained in sabotage, is used to doing it, and is being well-paid to do it is a lot more likely to so behave than a regular person who knows they will likely go to jail if they get caught. And there are lots of actors out there who have both the funds and motivation to hire such a person.
mrep 8y ago
According to the email from the article, the person has admitted to it and claimed it was due to promotional reasons. "The full extent of his actions are not yet clear, but what he has admitted to so far is pretty bad. His stated motivation is that he wanted a promotion that he did not receive. In light of these actions, not promoting him was definitely the right move."
- supergirl 8y ago
  > In light of these actions, not promoting him was definitely the right move that's pretty short sighted cheesy hollywood movie reply. you can just get from this dismissing statement how much they care about their employees. a better reply would've been "we'll launch a review to see how it got to this point / what made this person behave this way".
  - twodave 8y ago
    Why is it the company’s responsibility to rehabilitate someone over probably-criminal action? I agree that promoting someone unstable enough to commit sabotaging changes to a company would be the wrong move. It’s not like he is forcing anyone to work there.
    - supergirl 8y ago
      I’m not saying he should be promoted now or before. I’m saying company culture is to blame for this or at least should be the first thing to review instead of blaming the employee immediately. what if the next person that doesn’t get promoted suicides?
      - jmts 8y ago
        You're conflating two issues here. The company is not responsible for the decisions of its employees relating to promotions. It is the employee that chooses to do something irrational for whatever reason. I agree that a company should reflect on any given incident to determine whether there internal factors that may have contributed to its outcome, however ensuring the personal lives of employees are in tip-top shape is not something a company should ever be responsible for.

yasp 8y ago

Not that anyone cares or asked what I think but I wouldn't be surprised if Elon ends up surpassing Crazie Eddie Antar [0] as far as fraud goes. (I have no idea whether he is a fraud. He just strikes me as likely a fraud.) [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Eddie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Eddie

nodesocket 8y ago
I see a lot of resentment and "hate" on HN about Elon and quite honestly I don't understand where it is coming from. Where are the facts that Elon/Tesla is one gigantic fraud? Where is the scientific proof?
- yasp 8y ago
  I hope Elon is real. I want Elon to be real. I just fear that he isn't. I don't have "scientific proof" for you.
- drak0n1c 8y ago
  The media's opinion of Elon has turned sour lately due to his criticism of bloggers and tabloid articles (ie Daily Beast). That is starting to shape the minds of those who follow the media very closely.
  - nodesocket 8y ago
    Just because the media has turned doesn't mean his criticism of them is invalid or incorrect. Negatively in news is at absurd levels... Peddling outrage sells.
- badwolf 8y ago
  >I don't understand where it is coming from ~$10B in shorts...
- jcranmer 8y ago
  For me, personally, I strongly dislike the Hyperloop and Loop proposals. I can provide lots of details about why these systems suck as public transit options (and I've done so in the past several times), but there has tended to be an annoying cohort that rejects any and all criticism, no matter how reasoned it is. While I don't particularly pay attention to Tesla and Space X, I've noticed that there is similarly a very vocal cohort that responds to criticism by attacking detractors as shills for short sellers/Big Oil/Big Auto/Big Space, which certainly fuels schadenfreude for me and make me want to root against Tesla just to see that vocal cohort shut up. It should also be pointed out that there was recently a very public revelation about a Silicon Valley startup that made big noise about disrupting a stagnant industry whose technology was accused as being impossible which turned out to be a massive fraud. Tesla is a company which has certainly failed to meet many of its projected milestones, and whose public stature is partially based on a major technology which has failed to deliver so far (Autopilot). Undoubtedly, many people are liable to find the comparison too similar for comfort.
  - kitsunesoba 8y ago
    Personally speaking I’ve been a fan of Musk’s endeavors simply because they tend to actually move where other options creep along painstakingly slowly, get stalled, or are canned entirely. Focusing on the loop stuff specifically, even if it’s not the optimal transport solution it’s better than the alternative “better” solution that will be in a state of decay by the time it’s finished or never see the light of day at all. Musk doesn’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good and I think that’s important in an age where it’s more normal for major infrastructure projects to collapse on themselves or otherwise get gummed up indefinitely than it is for them to succeed. I don’t endorse his behavior on Twitter lately but I do feel that the efforts of his companies have merit.
    - mmjaa 8y ago
      I'm not at all interested in the Musk cult factor, but I think that all the critics are far too easily blinded by their own position and fail to see the incredible results that have already been attained, in spite of incredible odds against. Musk may tweak peoples jealousy buttons - and I truly think that jealousy of him personally is behind a lot of the criticism - but on the other hand, there is so much progress behind him that its almost ridiculous to hear the critics pulling hard on whatever loose strings they can find. I mean, the criticism may be warranted - but I think a great deal of respect and honest attribution is warranted, too. The statistics as to what has been accomplished as a result of Musks' crazy ideals demonstrate that, sometimes it seems, to push the human species forward you have to be a little crazy, outside the norms of the collective. ITT, people who haven't yet recognised this fact ..
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
abc_lisper 8y ago
Let me guess, you have never driven a Tesla, have you?
- legolas2412 8y ago
  Let me guess, if you had a BMW with similar interior, and similar production quality, you won't be a fan of it? Tesla fandom is based on futurism. Take regular driver assistance, call it autonomous self driving driverless cars and make a cult of personality around Elon musk. If BMW sold substandard cars at a higher price than comparative cars, and had fanboys buying it, and yet be rewarded by the stock market for making losses, BMW would be making Model S/X all year long.
- Fins 8y ago
  What, is it being pulled by magical unicorns, while you blissfully float on a cloud of unicorn farts? Eh, no, it's a car. Not particularly great or luxurious at that.
  - abc_lisper 8y ago
    I heard this defense before. It's the same as saying Mac is just a computer and iPhone is just a phone.
    - Fins 8y ago
      "Defense" seems to be a strange choice of word here. And seriously, iPhone isn't just a phone, seriously?
      - abc_lisper 8y ago
        Yeah, defense as in defending an argument. > And seriously, iPhone isn't just a phone, seriously? Not sure how old you are, but if you want just a phone look at feature phones, seriously ;)
        Fins 8y ago

woodandsteel 8y ago

This was my thought exactly. Sounds like they hired an ex-CIA field operative who was expert at what he was doing.

woodandsteel 8y ago
Further thought: if they know who they guy is and press criminal charges, they could pressure him to reveal who was behind it.
lovich 8y ago
>"This included making direct code changes to the Tesla Manufacturing Operating System under false usernames and exporting large amounts of highly sensitive Tesla data to unknown third parties." What in here indicates ex-CIA operative to you? Theres no need to add any conspiracy around it. Adding a commit with a different username is incredibly trivial to anyone who can run commit with the command line, i.e. 99% of software engineers. As for exporting data to unknown third parties, I have seen interns do this by accident. Its not complicated or needs rare skills to do a lot of damage internally. If Tesla runs fast and loose with ideas like their PR pieces suggest, I doubt their security is incredibly top notch in terms of locking down internal threats either
- woodandsteel 8y ago
  What matters is motivation. A person who is trained in sabotage, is used to doing it, and is being well-paid to do it is a lot more likely to so behave than a regular person who knows they will likely go to jail if they get caught. And there are lots of actors out there who have both the funds and motivation to hire such a person.

mrep 8y ago

According to the email from the article, the person has admitted to it and claimed it was due to promotional reasons. "The full extent of his actions are not yet clear, but what he has admitted to so far is pretty bad. His stated motivation is that he wanted a promotion that he did not receive. In light of these actions, not promoting him was definitely the right move."

supergirl 8y ago
> In light of these actions, not promoting him was definitely the right move that's pretty short sighted cheesy hollywood movie reply. you can just get from this dismissing statement how much they care about their employees. a better reply would've been "we'll launch a review to see how it got to this point / what made this person behave this way".
- twodave 8y ago
  Why is it the company’s responsibility to rehabilitate someone over probably-criminal action? I agree that promoting someone unstable enough to commit sabotaging changes to a company would be the wrong move. It’s not like he is forcing anyone to work there.
  - supergirl 8y ago
    I’m not saying he should be promoted now or before. I’m saying company culture is to blame for this or at least should be the first thing to review instead of blaming the employee immediately. what if the next person that doesn’t get promoted suicides?
    - jmts 8y ago
      You're conflating two issues here. The company is not responsible for the decisions of its employees relating to promotions. It is the employee that chooses to do something irrational for whatever reason. I agree that a company should reflect on any given incident to determine whether there internal factors that may have contributed to its outcome, however ensuring the personal lives of employees are in tip-top shape is not something a company should ever be responsible for.