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> working with ICE seems directly at odds with a company that depends on immigration and guest workers to fill out its workforce Why? ICE doesn’t deport legal

> working with ICE seems directly at odds with a company that depends on immigration and guest workers to fill out its workforce Why? ICE doesn’t deport legal immigrants. Yet another article dishonestly conflating legal and illegal immigration.

mikeash 8y ago
“ICE doesn’t deport legal immigrants.” Of course they do. They’ve even deported citizens. The agency is out of control, and the fact that they mostly enforce civil infractions means they’d not held to account nearly as much as traditional law enforcement, and not nearly as much as they should be.
- dominotw 8y ago
  > Of course they do. They’ve even deported citizens. Wow didn't know about this. edit: https://www.aclu.org/blog/speakeasy/yes-us-wrongfully-deports-its-own-citizens https://www.aclu.org/blog/speakeasy/yes-us-wrongfully-deport... Ok found what you are talking about. This is from 2008 but i assume its still happening. But why weren't people who are supposedly watching this quite before trump. It really boggles my mind.
  - hprotagonist 8y ago
    when you endow an agency with the ability and belief that it can completely and totally disregard due process, all sorts of horrible things happen.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      It helps that being in the country illegally is merely a civil infraction, meaning it doesn’t have the same standard of guilt that an actual crime does. No “beyond a reasonable doubt” here!
  - mikeash 8y ago
    Lots of people were fighting this long before Trump. With things like his ridiculous “travel ban” and now his policy of separately imprisoning children, Trump is drawing attention from less involved people too.
  - s2g 8y ago
    > But why weren't people who are supposedly watching this quite before trump. It really boggles my mind Because Trump is upping the level of cruelty and rhetoric.
- diebeforei485 8y ago
  What’s happening is that there is no central database of all US citizens, but there is information on every lawful immigrant. I think you’re trying to say: “they have no qualms deporting x, and x has a stronger claim to being here than y, so clearly they’d have no qualms deporting y”. The reality is completely different. If you’re a lawful immigrant, they have your fingerprints, photograph, travel history, address, and a whole lot of other information already, and you can use that to prove your identity. Of course, you may then be subject to a fine for not carrying your documents, as all aliens are required to pursuant to INA 264(e) and other provisions.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    There have been cases where the citizen held by ICE had easy proof of citizenship but ICE just refused to consider it. And you might remember green card holders getting refused entry and deported by the hundreds during the weekend of Trump’s abortive “travel ban,” although strictly speaking that’s not ICE.
    - diebeforei485 8y ago
      I would assume that’s because they hear the “I’m totally a US Citizen” claim all the time. I see you haven’t attempted to address my point of fingerprints showing a match. As for the travel ban affecting green card holders, that was stupid but irrelevant to the point at hand. That part was reversed very quickly, I might add.
      - mikeash 8y ago
        In one case, the guy had somebody bring his US passport. They wouldn’t look at it. What makes you think they’re certain to dig into their files based on the word of someone who says “I’m totally a green card holder” if they won’t even look at a passport that’s brought to them?
        diebeforei485 8y ago
        I’m not saying they’d “dig into their files based on the word of someone”. Here’s what I am saying: ICE runs the fingerprints of everyone they arrest, and the system will show a match for anyone who went through the legal immigration process.
d_e_solomon 8y ago
Uh... see here: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-citizens-ice-20180427-htmlstory.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-citizens-ice-201804...
s2g 8y ago
> Why? ICE doesn’t deport legal immigrants. They have detained citizens. What the hell makes you think they give 2 shits if someone is here legally or not?

mikeash 8y ago

“ICE doesn’t deport legal immigrants.” Of course they do. They’ve even deported citizens. The agency is out of control, and the fact that they mostly enforce civil infractions means they’d not held to account nearly as much as traditional law enforcement, and not nearly as much as they should be.

dominotw 8y ago
> Of course they do. They’ve even deported citizens. Wow didn't know about this. edit: https://www.aclu.org/blog/speakeasy/yes-us-wrongfully-deports-its-own-citizens https://www.aclu.org/blog/speakeasy/yes-us-wrongfully-deport... Ok found what you are talking about. This is from 2008 but i assume its still happening. But why weren't people who are supposedly watching this quite before trump. It really boggles my mind.
- hprotagonist 8y ago
  when you endow an agency with the ability and belief that it can completely and totally disregard due process, all sorts of horrible things happen.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    It helps that being in the country illegally is merely a civil infraction, meaning it doesn’t have the same standard of guilt that an actual crime does. No “beyond a reasonable doubt” here!
- mikeash 8y ago
  Lots of people were fighting this long before Trump. With things like his ridiculous “travel ban” and now his policy of separately imprisoning children, Trump is drawing attention from less involved people too.
- s2g 8y ago
  > But why weren't people who are supposedly watching this quite before trump. It really boggles my mind Because Trump is upping the level of cruelty and rhetoric.
diebeforei485 8y ago
What’s happening is that there is no central database of all US citizens, but there is information on every lawful immigrant. I think you’re trying to say: “they have no qualms deporting x, and x has a stronger claim to being here than y, so clearly they’d have no qualms deporting y”. The reality is completely different. If you’re a lawful immigrant, they have your fingerprints, photograph, travel history, address, and a whole lot of other information already, and you can use that to prove your identity. Of course, you may then be subject to a fine for not carrying your documents, as all aliens are required to pursuant to INA 264(e) and other provisions.
- mikeash 8y ago
  There have been cases where the citizen held by ICE had easy proof of citizenship but ICE just refused to consider it. And you might remember green card holders getting refused entry and deported by the hundreds during the weekend of Trump’s abortive “travel ban,” although strictly speaking that’s not ICE.
  - diebeforei485 8y ago
    I would assume that’s because they hear the “I’m totally a US Citizen” claim all the time. I see you haven’t attempted to address my point of fingerprints showing a match. As for the travel ban affecting green card holders, that was stupid but irrelevant to the point at hand. That part was reversed very quickly, I might add.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      In one case, the guy had somebody bring his US passport. They wouldn’t look at it. What makes you think they’re certain to dig into their files based on the word of someone who says “I’m totally a green card holder” if they won’t even look at a passport that’s brought to them?
      - diebeforei485 8y ago
        I’m not saying they’d “dig into their files based on the word of someone”. Here’s what I am saying: ICE runs the fingerprints of everyone they arrest, and the system will show a match for anyone who went through the legal immigration process.

d_e_solomon 8y ago

Uh... see here: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-citizens-ice-20180427-htmlstory.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-citizens-ice-201804...

s2g 8y ago

> Why? ICE doesn’t deport legal immigrants. They have detained citizens. What the hell makes you think they give 2 shits if someone is here legally or not?