4 ms·

It reminds me of Japanese prisons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJp9nKaO7c4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJp9nKaO7c4 I feel like this level of systemati

by pwaai 8y ago

It reminds me of Japanese prisons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJp9nKaO7c4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJp9nKaO7c4 I feel like this level of systematic dehumanization should be banned as it inflicts unnecessary suffering with no real benefit to society. but Japan has the lowest crime rates because the prosecution has a track record of 99% conviction rate. You might be thinking oh fuck thats fucked up but it actually deters Japanese citizens from deviating from the law. Because no matter what they are going to throw the book at you with only 1% chance of not going to jail. When it's that biased the return on criminal action at an individual level is negative. And as a result Japan has a thriving organized criminal economy and it makes sense, when you have a lot of disposable soldiers, don't need to pay severance (they do with their fingers), unregulated labor workforce, suddenly you've created an enormously profitable criminal enterprise that reaches into every aspect of Japanese society-pornography, brothels, stock market, celebrities, media.

nickfromseattle 8y ago
The U.S. has a similar rate in the federal court system, still lots of crime. I don't think it's the punishment.
- shubb 8y ago
  One aspect could be crime recording. A 99% conviction rate says two things for me: - High risk of false positives - Only straight forward cases are being tried, so presumably police are memory holing cases that they can't clean up quickly.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
Japan's justice system isn't all it looks like on the surface. They have a habit of forcing confessions out of suspects [1], sexual assault and harassment is massively unreported, and murders are often ruled as suicides if there are no clear suspects. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20810572 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20810572
csa 8y ago
This isn't quite the whole story. Typically (not always), if someone goes to prison, it is because of them using up many chances to avoid going -- or they did something particularly heinous. Japanese prisons are not flooded with minor drug violators like US prisons are. First, the police I've met in Japan are VERY willing to look the other way rather than convict someone on a serious-but-relatively-minor offense (e.g., drinking and driving while not "drunk"). I have also known them to handle delicate situations in very diplomatic ways (e.g., appropriate but definitely illegal street justice). The stories I have heard of people going to jail involved that person breaking the law repeatedly and with multiple warnings (usu. with accompanying letters they had to write saying that they would not continue to behave in a criminal way). In the more provincial areas (even the small cities), the police actually have a pretty good feel of what is going on in their towns -- the speed of gossip is impressive. If anyone is acting up, it would not be surprising for the police to find out and just go have a friendly talk with that person reminding them that doing $CRIME is, well, a crime that might have very unfortunate consequences. That discussion usually puts a lid on it. I will also add that for a very large portion of the population, the peer pressure to conform goes extremely far in discouraging people from doing things that would put them in prison. The idea of prison itself is just a foreign idea for most people. I haven not recently updated my reading on the Japanese criminal justice system (most of my knowledge is 10+ years old), but I don't recall reading much that made me feel like there were many prisoners were in prison unreasonably. A few were, but just a few, and completely different than the US where it's obvious that quite a few people are in prison for things like minor offenses, getting framed, not being able to afford decent representation, etc.
- dbasedweeb 8y ago
  Japan is also a unique case in that they have a 99% conviction rate in criminal cases. The best research I’ve seem explains this in terms of extremes of prosecutorial discretion: only sure-win cases are taken to court. If you end up in a Japanese prison, you really really fucked up, broke the law, and provided the government with an open and-shut case. As a result the “low crime rate” and “high conviction rate” are both somewhat artificial. A lot of crimes go unreported, or at the very least unprosecuted. Japan does have a relatively low crime rate, but the criminal element can often get away, especially if the victim is homeless, another criminal, or in some other way an outsider.

by pwaai 8y ago

nickfromseattle 8y ago

The U.S. has a similar rate in the federal court system, still lots of crime. I don't think it's the punishment.

shubb 8y ago
One aspect could be crime recording. A 99% conviction rate says two things for me: - High risk of false positives - Only straight forward cases are being tried, so presumably police are memory holing cases that they can't clean up quickly.

toomanybeersies 8y ago

Japan's justice system isn't all it looks like on the surface. They have a habit of forcing confessions out of suspects [1], sexual assault and harassment is massively unreported, and murders are often ruled as suicides if there are no clear suspects. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20810572 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20810572

csa 8y ago

This isn't quite the whole story. Typically (not always), if someone goes to prison, it is because of them using up many chances to avoid going -- or they did something particularly heinous. Japanese prisons are not flooded with minor drug violators like US prisons are. First, the police I've met in Japan are VERY willing to look the other way rather than convict someone on a serious-but-relatively-minor offense (e.g., drinking and driving while not "drunk"). I have also known them to handle delicate situations in very diplomatic ways (e.g., appropriate but definitely illegal street justice). The stories I have heard of people going to jail involved that person breaking the law repeatedly and with multiple warnings (usu. with accompanying letters they had to write saying that they would not continue to behave in a criminal way). In the more provincial areas (even the small cities), the police actually have a pretty good feel of what is going on in their towns -- the speed of gossip is impressive. If anyone is acting up, it would not be surprising for the police to find out and just go have a friendly talk with that person reminding them that doing $CRIME is, well, a crime that might have very unfortunate consequences. That discussion usually puts a lid on it. I will also add that for a very large portion of the population, the peer pressure to conform goes extremely far in discouraging people from doing things that would put them in prison. The idea of prison itself is just a foreign idea for most people. I haven not recently updated my reading on the Japanese criminal justice system (most of my knowledge is 10+ years old), but I don't recall reading much that made me feel like there were many prisoners were in prison unreasonably. A few were, but just a few, and completely different than the US where it's obvious that quite a few people are in prison for things like minor offenses, getting framed, not being able to afford decent representation, etc.

dbasedweeb 8y ago
Japan is also a unique case in that they have a 99% conviction rate in criminal cases. The best research I’ve seem explains this in terms of extremes of prosecutorial discretion: only sure-win cases are taken to court. If you end up in a Japanese prison, you really really fucked up, broke the law, and provided the government with an open and-shut case. As a result the “low crime rate” and “high conviction rate” are both somewhat artificial. A lot of crimes go unreported, or at the very least unprosecuted. Japan does have a relatively low crime rate, but the criminal element can often get away, especially if the victim is homeless, another criminal, or in some other way an outsider.