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I want my country to be better in living up to its ideals, but as an adult I also realize that it's difficult to achieve perfection in the real world. So, until

I want my country to be better in living up to its ideals, but as an adult I also realize that it's difficult to achieve perfection in the real world. So, until such time as we do, it's a relative question and on that score the U.S. is far and away better than the lying, murderous, kleptocratic regimes of dictators like Putin. Your comment encouraging utter mistrust and outright fear/hatred of our own government is, conveniently, exactly what state actors wishing to see our downfall work to promote. It is the perfect weapon to use against democratic nations as it attacks the very foundation of our freedoms. In a democratic society, the government is an expression of the will of the people, thus to turn its people against their own government is to weaken the very concept of self-rule and open the door to Putin-esque authoritarian autocracy. One would have to be brainwashed or complicit not to acknowledge this. So, what is your solution? That because we have some internal imperfections, we should let adversarial nations who wish us harm attack us with impunity? We should abandon our ideals and join our adversaries in crippling our own government instead of strenghtening our democratic machinery to continue perfecting our free society and the government that supports it? Rightist conspiracy theories notwithstanding, there is no "police state" or "deep state" here and our government is the guarantor of our freedoms. To the extent that it is broken, we should be working to address its problems, not working with adversaries to destroy it and, hence, destroy ourselves.

StanislavPetrov 8y ago
>Rightist conspiracy theories notwithstanding, there is no "police state" or "deep state" here and our government is the guarantor of our freedoms. I suggest you learn something about history. Especially US history, since you are a US citizen and you clearly know very little, if anything, about the history of our own country. >In a democratic society, the government is an expression of the will of the people, thus to turn its people against their own government is to weaken the very concept of self-rule and open the door to Putin-esque authoritarian autocracy. Which is why we should end our support of dictatorships around the world, and our constant subversion of democracy around the world. We have absolutely no moral authority to point the finger at bad actors when we are, and have been, the worst global actor for decades. >So, what is your solution? My "solution" would be for us to stop our amoral, counterproductive pursuit of global hegemony, both military and economic. My solution would be for us to end our illegal invasions, dismantle our police-state, and start solving our own problems, that are many, instead of focusing on telling the rest of the world how to live at the point of a gun. We rank near the bottom of every developed country (and many "third world" countries) on virtually every global metric, from education, to healthcare, to life expectancy, to wealth disparity. People like yourself who think that any of our serious problems are caused by foreign actors are truly delusional and the reason that our country is in such bad shape. Its long past time we put our own house in order.
- unclebucknasty 8y ago
  >I suggest you learn something about history. >you are a US citizen and you clearly know very little Yet, you've said very little outside of hand-waving about how evil America is and co-signing to deep-state conspiracy theories that plainly make no sense to even the casual observer. But, you love your country, right? If you really understood history, then you'd know that invoking it is not on the side of the arguments you're making. You've then gone on to offer a near child-like version of the world wherein the U.S. operates in a magical vacuum and liberal democracy is some guaranteed default mode that simply exists, irrespective of what the rest of the world does. We simply withdraw from the global world stage and the world order just remains as-is, right? Or perhaps you have a problem with the current world order? And, once the space begins to shrink for the ideal of liberal democracy, how does America fare? OTOH, I can think of some nations that will fare quite well. Can you? If, so, what affect has the amplification of their ideologies across the world vs those of the U.S.? >People like yourself who think that any of our serious problems are caused by foreign actors are truly delusional and the reason that our country is in such bad shape This is just mind-numbing and I don't really know where to start. Let's just keep it simple and say that both categories of things can represent really, really big problems that require our attention. No one is claiming that America is perfect. We have miles to go and no right-thinking American agrees with everything we have ever done. But, those who love our country understand that it is the ideals that we must protect and perfect. Yet, here you are suggesting that we must instead decide between addressing, say, a.) wealth disparity in our country and b.) allowing our democracy to be undermined by hostile adversaries while reducing our global footprint to our own borders. Please keep your MAGA-style faux uber-nationalism that rests on an infantile view of the way the world works and feigns patriotism, while it surreptitiously promotes the interests of other nations above our own. You see, your comments reveal that either you have been brainwashed and understand well what you are promoting; or you have absolutely no idea what you're on about and you're utterly lacking in the historical context and logical capacity required to reason about it. So, just know that any thinking person can see this quite clearly, "Stanislov".
  - StanislavPetrov 8y ago
    >Yet, you've said very little outside of hand-waving about how evil America is and co-signing to deep-state conspiracy theories that plainly make no sense to even the casual observer. But, you love your country, right? There is no conspiracy about the century+ of imperialism that we have been engaged in. Nobody with even a passing understanding of history disputes this. At least honest imperialists like David Frum and Max Boot don't embarass themselves with an utter ignorance of history - just an utter lack of morality. >You've then gone on to offer a near child-like version of the world in which the U.S. operates in a magical vacuum wherein liberal democracy is some guaranteed default mode that simply exists irrespective of what the rest of the world does. We simply withdraw from the global world stage and the world order just remains as-is, right? Or perhaps you have a problem with the current world order? Everyone informed and intelligent who cares about morality, international law, and the well-being of the people of the United States and the world has a massive problem with the current world order. >And, once the space begins to shrink for the ideal of liberal democracy, how does America fare? Nobody who knows anything about history would ever consider suggesting that the United States has supported, or supports now, the idea of "liberal democracy". From Egypt to Saudi Arabian to Uzbekistan to countless dictatorships in Africa, to right-wing juntas in Central and South America, we support, and have supported, the most vile dictators alive. From Saddam Hussein to Pinochet, from Guatemala to El Salvador to Honduras to Columbia, the list goes on. Then we can go on to our most recent destruction of Iraq, Libya, and Yemen and our support of Islamic terrorists in Syria to support our "allies" and client states that prop up our global military empire. Unfortunately your astounding ignorance of history and current events is the standard for people here, which is why the corporate agents of the DC/CIA media establishment have no problem installing all kinds of nonsense in your head. Anyone can see your worldview quite clearly - its the worldview imprinted on the minds of the ignorant by the propagandists who unfortunately run our society. Its easy to fill an empty vessel with platitudes about "liberal democracy" if people don't understand our actual history of overthrowing democratically elected governments around the world, both overtly and covertly, for a century. In an effort to alleviate a tiny portion of your ignorance, I point you to the person who inspired me to take this handle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

StanislavPetrov 8y ago

>Rightist conspiracy theories notwithstanding, there is no "police state" or "deep state" here and our government is the guarantor of our freedoms. I suggest you learn something about history. Especially US history, since you are a US citizen and you clearly know very little, if anything, about the history of our own country. >In a democratic society, the government is an expression of the will of the people, thus to turn its people against their own government is to weaken the very concept of self-rule and open the door to Putin-esque authoritarian autocracy. Which is why we should end our support of dictatorships around the world, and our constant subversion of democracy around the world. We have absolutely no moral authority to point the finger at bad actors when we are, and have been, the worst global actor for decades. >So, what is your solution? My "solution" would be for us to stop our amoral, counterproductive pursuit of global hegemony, both military and economic. My solution would be for us to end our illegal invasions, dismantle our police-state, and start solving our own problems, that are many, instead of focusing on telling the rest of the world how to live at the point of a gun. We rank near the bottom of every developed country (and many "third world" countries) on virtually every global metric, from education, to healthcare, to life expectancy, to wealth disparity. People like yourself who think that any of our serious problems are caused by foreign actors are truly delusional and the reason that our country is in such bad shape. Its long past time we put our own house in order.

unclebucknasty 8y ago
>I suggest you learn something about history. >you are a US citizen and you clearly know very little Yet, you've said very little outside of hand-waving about how evil America is and co-signing to deep-state conspiracy theories that plainly make no sense to even the casual observer. But, you love your country, right? If you really understood history, then you'd know that invoking it is not on the side of the arguments you're making. You've then gone on to offer a near child-like version of the world wherein the U.S. operates in a magical vacuum and liberal democracy is some guaranteed default mode that simply exists, irrespective of what the rest of the world does. We simply withdraw from the global world stage and the world order just remains as-is, right? Or perhaps you have a problem with the current world order? And, once the space begins to shrink for the ideal of liberal democracy, how does America fare? OTOH, I can think of some nations that will fare quite well. Can you? If, so, what affect has the amplification of their ideologies across the world vs those of the U.S.? >People like yourself who think that any of our serious problems are caused by foreign actors are truly delusional and the reason that our country is in such bad shape This is just mind-numbing and I don't really know where to start. Let's just keep it simple and say that both categories of things can represent really, really big problems that require our attention. No one is claiming that America is perfect. We have miles to go and no right-thinking American agrees with everything we have ever done. But, those who love our country understand that it is the ideals that we must protect and perfect. Yet, here you are suggesting that we must instead decide between addressing, say, a.) wealth disparity in our country and b.) allowing our democracy to be undermined by hostile adversaries while reducing our global footprint to our own borders. Please keep your MAGA-style faux uber-nationalism that rests on an infantile view of the way the world works and feigns patriotism, while it surreptitiously promotes the interests of other nations above our own. You see, your comments reveal that either you have been brainwashed and understand well what you are promoting; or you have absolutely no idea what you're on about and you're utterly lacking in the historical context and logical capacity required to reason about it. So, just know that any thinking person can see this quite clearly, "Stanislov".
- StanislavPetrov 8y ago
  >Yet, you've said very little outside of hand-waving about how evil America is and co-signing to deep-state conspiracy theories that plainly make no sense to even the casual observer. But, you love your country, right? There is no conspiracy about the century+ of imperialism that we have been engaged in. Nobody with even a passing understanding of history disputes this. At least honest imperialists like David Frum and Max Boot don't embarass themselves with an utter ignorance of history - just an utter lack of morality. >You've then gone on to offer a near child-like version of the world in which the U.S. operates in a magical vacuum wherein liberal democracy is some guaranteed default mode that simply exists irrespective of what the rest of the world does. We simply withdraw from the global world stage and the world order just remains as-is, right? Or perhaps you have a problem with the current world order? Everyone informed and intelligent who cares about morality, international law, and the well-being of the people of the United States and the world has a massive problem with the current world order. >And, once the space begins to shrink for the ideal of liberal democracy, how does America fare? Nobody who knows anything about history would ever consider suggesting that the United States has supported, or supports now, the idea of "liberal democracy". From Egypt to Saudi Arabian to Uzbekistan to countless dictatorships in Africa, to right-wing juntas in Central and South America, we support, and have supported, the most vile dictators alive. From Saddam Hussein to Pinochet, from Guatemala to El Salvador to Honduras to Columbia, the list goes on. Then we can go on to our most recent destruction of Iraq, Libya, and Yemen and our support of Islamic terrorists in Syria to support our "allies" and client states that prop up our global military empire. Unfortunately your astounding ignorance of history and current events is the standard for people here, which is why the corporate agents of the DC/CIA media establishment have no problem installing all kinds of nonsense in your head. Anyone can see your worldview quite clearly - its the worldview imprinted on the minds of the ignorant by the propagandists who unfortunately run our society. Its easy to fill an empty vessel with platitudes about "liberal democracy" if people don't understand our actual history of overthrowing democratically elected governments around the world, both overtly and covertly, for a century. In an effort to alleviate a tiny portion of your ignorance, I point you to the person who inspired me to take this handle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov