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I do admire people wanting to do startups with a work life balance, Want to solve world issues, but not sleep/eat/live at an incubator. That is probably the re

I do admire people wanting to do startups with a work life balance, Want to solve world issues, but not sleep/eat/live at an incubator. That is probably the real take away, the gung-ho startup collectives are way more energetic than someone trying to fix process management flow in government. But using a racists angle in the article, that whites exclude people of color, is rather annoying. I've worked tech for over 30 years, in groups where I was the only white guy, racism and sexism is out there, but not even to the point these people say it is. Political bigotry is the real issue now. Lets leave that stuff at home, and just make businesses where everyone profits. Crazy I know.

cal5k 8y ago
Ethnic and religious minorities have been incredibly successful in the Toronto tech scene - Ismaili muslims, for example, have started some of the most successful companies & incubators in the city and have been, as far as I can tell, deservedly lionized for their achievements.
chipotle_coyote 8y ago
I'm (somewhat) sorry to pick on you for this, but this is something I've always found annoying/fascinating. I'm a fiction writer and a technical writer, and in both cases, I'm routinely advised that it's good to turn subject matter experts -- SMEs -- not only for things that I know I don't know, but for things that I think I know but might not have a complete understanding of. If we want to know what it's really like to be a fighter pilot, we should talk to fighter pilots, or at the very least read first-hand reports from them. We generally accept that this is true for nearly all fields of interest, not exclusively professions: if you want to learn about concentration camps or life in a cult, for instance, talk to or read first-hand reports from those who have. Yet, somehow, when it's suggested that the SMEs on what it's like to be a woman software engineer would be women software engineers, or to be a woman founder in tech would be women founders in tech, suddenly "hey, I'm a man who's been in tech for a long time and I've never seen it" is good enough. To me, it seems intuitively obvious that they may have insight into the challenges they face that you and I don't, and when we hear multiple women founders in tech talk about the sexism they faced that you and I by definition would not, we should consider the possibility that they know what they're talking about. Crazy, I know.
- superplussed 8y ago
  Well said.
- troupe 8y ago
  The article specifically said that she wasn't comfortable because people didn't look like her. The person you are replying to said they were in the same position where they looked around and no one looked like them.
  - chipotle_coyote 8y ago
    I can look around my office and see a lot of people who "don't look like me"; I'm older than most of them and many of them are Indian or Korean. That doesn't mean my experience is effectively equivalent to hers because of that similarity.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - ScottBurson 8y ago
    It says that she didn't feel welcome and included. It's true that having more Muslim women in the room might have helped her feel that way, but it's also true that if the men had made her feel more welcome, her being different might not have mattered so much. Indeed, even if there were more Muslim women, if the men were still abrasive to them, the two groups would simply have drifted apart ... which seems to be what has happened. In the GP's case, even though he was the only white male in the room, evidently the others didn't make him feel unwelcome. That's nice, but it doesn't prove that such things never happen. I find the place I work to be very inclusive too, as far as I can tell being a white male, but I don't doubt that some places are worse, and a few are much worse.
    - troupe 8y ago
      If people were being abrasive to her then it would have been worth mentioning in the article. Instead she said that she felt like some people were being aggressive if they didn't seem interested in helping her.
troupe 8y ago
Did you ever find people who ignore you or who weren't willing to help you? Because the article makes it sound like you should blame it on your race/sex/religious beliefs.

cal5k 8y ago

Ethnic and religious minorities have been incredibly successful in the Toronto tech scene - Ismaili muslims, for example, have started some of the most successful companies & incubators in the city and have been, as far as I can tell, deservedly lionized for their achievements.

chipotle_coyote 8y ago

I'm (somewhat) sorry to pick on you for this, but this is something I've always found annoying/fascinating. I'm a fiction writer and a technical writer, and in both cases, I'm routinely advised that it's good to turn subject matter experts -- SMEs -- not only for things that I know I don't know, but for things that I think I know but might not have a complete understanding of. If we want to know what it's really like to be a fighter pilot, we should talk to fighter pilots, or at the very least read first-hand reports from them. We generally accept that this is true for nearly all fields of interest, not exclusively professions: if you want to learn about concentration camps or life in a cult, for instance, talk to or read first-hand reports from those who have. Yet, somehow, when it's suggested that the SMEs on what it's like to be a woman software engineer would be women software engineers, or to be a woman founder in tech would be women founders in tech, suddenly "hey, I'm a man who's been in tech for a long time and I've never seen it" is good enough. To me, it seems intuitively obvious that they may have insight into the challenges they face that you and I don't, and when we hear multiple women founders in tech talk about the sexism they faced that you and I by definition would not, we should consider the possibility that they know what they're talking about. Crazy, I know.

superplussed 8y ago
Well said.
troupe 8y ago
The article specifically said that she wasn't comfortable because people didn't look like her. The person you are replying to said they were in the same position where they looked around and no one looked like them.
- chipotle_coyote 8y ago
  I can look around my office and see a lot of people who "don't look like me"; I'm older than most of them and many of them are Indian or Korean. That doesn't mean my experience is effectively equivalent to hers because of that similarity.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- ScottBurson 8y ago
  It says that she didn't feel welcome and included. It's true that having more Muslim women in the room might have helped her feel that way, but it's also true that if the men had made her feel more welcome, her being different might not have mattered so much. Indeed, even if there were more Muslim women, if the men were still abrasive to them, the two groups would simply have drifted apart ... which seems to be what has happened. In the GP's case, even though he was the only white male in the room, evidently the others didn't make him feel unwelcome. That's nice, but it doesn't prove that such things never happen. I find the place I work to be very inclusive too, as far as I can tell being a white male, but I don't doubt that some places are worse, and a few are much worse.
  - troupe 8y ago
    If people were being abrasive to her then it would have been worth mentioning in the article. Instead she said that she felt like some people were being aggressive if they didn't seem interested in helping her.

troupe 8y ago

Did you ever find people who ignore you or who weren't willing to help you? Because the article makes it sound like you should blame it on your race/sex/religious beliefs.