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Bitcoin for us mere mortals who are not drugdealers seems unlikely. It simply doesn't solve a problem that people have. I can pay for my groceries waving a plas

Bitcoin for us mere mortals who are not drugdealers seems unlikely. It simply doesn't solve a problem that people have. I can pay for my groceries waving a plastic card around and it costs me nothing. Traditional payment systems are safer, cheaper and more efficient than crypto.

aeternus 8y ago
If the Bitcoin community gets lightning network off the ground (it's very close), it solves the problem of micropayments. This is a problem many people likely have that they are not aware of. Ability to pay a fraction of a cent for each article you read online could eliminate the need for both annoying paywalls & ads. Traditional payment systems are actually quite expensive, you just don't see it since the merchant pays. Typically 2.5% + $.10 for most credit cards. That cost is still baked into prices & goods. Safer is definitely true though, it's just too hard for the average person to properly secure cryptocurrencies.
- phobosdeimos 8y ago
  Well I wasn't talking about CC, those are daylight robbery. €0,056 flat transaction fee is the target that I challenge crypto to beat. Thats what my employer pays to banks.
  - brandonsometig 8y ago
    You can make 1 Satoshi payments on the Lightning network already at a cost of $0.00007.
- davidgerard 8y ago
  > it solves the problem of micropayments. Well, no - the problem of micropayments is that users consistently hate them. Users only put up with micropayments when there's literally no other option. Vendors keep bringing up the idea of micropayments entirely on the basis of "it would be cool for us if they worked." This is not enough - because the problem is social, not technical.
bitcoinisqueen 8y ago
Tell that to citizens of Greece when the banks took 20% of everyone's life savings a few years ago. Tell that to the 3B people in the world who live on less than $2/day and banks will not deal with them. You make claims that traditional payment systems are more efficient.... but did not include an energy calculation to maintain those banks, armoured cars, and infrastructure as compared to bitcoin energy consumption.
- root_axis 8y ago
  >$2/day and banks will not deal with them People living on $2 a day generally don't have reliable access to computers, electricity, internet or the technical literacy necessary to navigate the cryptocurrency minefield.
  - bitcoinisqueen 8y ago
    No. You are out of touch. https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2016/01/15/cellphone-toilet https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2016/01/1... The fact is that 20% of the world's poorest has a smartphone and is in many cases more valuable than running water or sanitation. Within 10-20 years we will have 50km range wifi, with solar powered batteries and ultra low cost computing power and many more of the poor will be brought into the connected economica world via smartphones, long range power and internet tech and micro transactions with ultra low fees powered by tech like bitcoin (cash). The last startup I worked at 3 years ago sold Android smartphones for $5 USD. Unbelievable that I get called out of touch when the author is a couple years behind the curve. Nice vision and imagination, man.
    - dang 8y ago
      Would you please stop posting flamebait comments on divisive topics to Hacker News? It's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - bitcoinisqueen 8y ago

aeternus 8y ago

If the Bitcoin community gets lightning network off the ground (it's very close), it solves the problem of micropayments. This is a problem many people likely have that they are not aware of. Ability to pay a fraction of a cent for each article you read online could eliminate the need for both annoying paywalls & ads. Traditional payment systems are actually quite expensive, you just don't see it since the merchant pays. Typically 2.5% + $.10 for most credit cards. That cost is still baked into prices & goods. Safer is definitely true though, it's just too hard for the average person to properly secure cryptocurrencies.

phobosdeimos 8y ago
Well I wasn't talking about CC, those are daylight robbery. €0,056 flat transaction fee is the target that I challenge crypto to beat. Thats what my employer pays to banks.
- brandonsometig 8y ago
  You can make 1 Satoshi payments on the Lightning network already at a cost of $0.00007.
davidgerard 8y ago
> it solves the problem of micropayments. Well, no - the problem of micropayments is that users consistently hate them. Users only put up with micropayments when there's literally no other option. Vendors keep bringing up the idea of micropayments entirely on the basis of "it would be cool for us if they worked." This is not enough - because the problem is social, not technical.

bitcoinisqueen 8y ago

Tell that to citizens of Greece when the banks took 20% of everyone's life savings a few years ago. Tell that to the 3B people in the world who live on less than $2/day and banks will not deal with them. You make claims that traditional payment systems are more efficient.... but did not include an energy calculation to maintain those banks, armoured cars, and infrastructure as compared to bitcoin energy consumption.

root_axis 8y ago
>$2/day and banks will not deal with them People living on $2 a day generally don't have reliable access to computers, electricity, internet or the technical literacy necessary to navigate the cryptocurrency minefield.
- bitcoinisqueen 8y ago
  No. You are out of touch. https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2016/01/15/cellphone-toilet https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2016/01/1... The fact is that 20% of the world's poorest has a smartphone and is in many cases more valuable than running water or sanitation. Within 10-20 years we will have 50km range wifi, with solar powered batteries and ultra low cost computing power and many more of the poor will be brought into the connected economica world via smartphones, long range power and internet tech and micro transactions with ultra low fees powered by tech like bitcoin (cash). The last startup I worked at 3 years ago sold Android smartphones for $5 USD. Unbelievable that I get called out of touch when the author is a couple years behind the curve. Nice vision and imagination, man.
  - dang 8y ago
    Would you please stop posting flamebait comments on divisive topics to Hacker News? It's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - bitcoinisqueen 8y ago