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> Yet, looking beyond the hype, it is hard to identify a specific economic problem which they currently solve. People seem to forget that cryptocurrencies eme

> Yet, looking beyond the hype, it is hard to identify a specific economic problem which they currently solve. People seem to forget that cryptocurrencies emerged from a culture of cryptoanarchy, not from economists or governments. Anarchists generally don't want to help the government solve problems, they view the government as the very problem to solve. (I'm speaking very broadly here.)

Semirhage 8y ago
Whatever “culture” supposedly created it, that’s not the real use case. The same people who will rant about “fiat” will in the next breath, talk about various measures to centralize crypto through PoW. It’s about making money by any and all means including outright fraud, not ideology. Most damning to me is that the case against cryptocurrency takes two sentences to clearly outline, while the case for them is yet to even emerge. Transactions are slow and costly, prone to congestion, and cannot scale with demand. The decentralised consensus behind the technology is also fragile and consumes vast amounts of energy. Nailed it.
bena 8y ago
I find that most extreme ideologies simply boil down to people not wanting someone to have any control over them. They don't care for certain aspects of the social contract and want to be able to flaunt it at will with no repercussions. Or they don't want to pay taxes or some other thing. Whatever, they feel that society at large is what's holding them back, not simply a lack of ability or drive. At least with religious fundamentalists or whatever flavor of totalitarianism you're comfortable with, it's clear what their answer to the problem of force is: be the force. Anarchists have no answer to that. They want to "be free to do whatever" but when confronted with the question of what happens when I want their shit, they invariably create government. Oh, I can't take their shit because there will be rules. In the community they live, you can't live there if you take other people's shit. Yeah. That's just government. That's politics. That's the social contract. We all agree not to do shit in order for us to live relatively peaceful, chill lives. Government, in the broad sense, is not the problem. The problem is that governments are still run by people. And we're kind of fucked up. And we often make mistakes.
- drdeca 8y ago
  I wonder whether some substantial portion of cryptoanarchism isn't really meant to be anarchism in the fullest sense, but more anarchism-but-only-within-a-particular-domain? Like, less "make the government not exist", and more "make it so goverments are unable to control things like communication, and some sorts of commerce"? I don't know that self-described cryptoanarchists almost always have much opposition to the requirement of a drivers license in order to drive on the public roads. I suspect that a non-negligible portion does really object to that requirement, but I'm not confident that the majority of them do.
  - CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
    > I wonder whether some substantial portion of cryptoanarchism isn't really meant to be anarchism in the fullest sense, but more anarchism-but-only-within-a-particular-domain? It varies from person to person. I happen to like the message in A Cipherpunk's Manifesto, but I also happen to dislike blockchain mania.
curiousgal 8y ago
Well as a Tunisian with no access to PayPal, Bitcoin was the only way I could pay for goods and services online there. Nothing can undo the effect that had on my life.
mtve 8y ago
very well said, thank you so much.

Semirhage 8y ago

Whatever “culture” supposedly created it, that’s not the real use case. The same people who will rant about “fiat” will in the next breath, talk about various measures to centralize crypto through PoW. It’s about making money by any and all means including outright fraud, not ideology. Most damning to me is that the case against cryptocurrency takes two sentences to clearly outline, while the case for them is yet to even emerge. Transactions are slow and costly, prone to congestion, and cannot scale with demand. The decentralised consensus behind the technology is also fragile and consumes vast amounts of energy. Nailed it.

bena 8y ago

I find that most extreme ideologies simply boil down to people not wanting someone to have any control over them. They don't care for certain aspects of the social contract and want to be able to flaunt it at will with no repercussions. Or they don't want to pay taxes or some other thing. Whatever, they feel that society at large is what's holding them back, not simply a lack of ability or drive. At least with religious fundamentalists or whatever flavor of totalitarianism you're comfortable with, it's clear what their answer to the problem of force is: be the force. Anarchists have no answer to that. They want to "be free to do whatever" but when confronted with the question of what happens when I want their shit, they invariably create government. Oh, I can't take their shit because there will be rules. In the community they live, you can't live there if you take other people's shit. Yeah. That's just government. That's politics. That's the social contract. We all agree not to do shit in order for us to live relatively peaceful, chill lives. Government, in the broad sense, is not the problem. The problem is that governments are still run by people. And we're kind of fucked up. And we often make mistakes.

drdeca 8y ago
I wonder whether some substantial portion of cryptoanarchism isn't really meant to be anarchism in the fullest sense, but more anarchism-but-only-within-a-particular-domain? Like, less "make the government not exist", and more "make it so goverments are unable to control things like communication, and some sorts of commerce"? I don't know that self-described cryptoanarchists almost always have much opposition to the requirement of a drivers license in order to drive on the public roads. I suspect that a non-negligible portion does really object to that requirement, but I'm not confident that the majority of them do.
- CiPHPerCoder 8y ago
  > I wonder whether some substantial portion of cryptoanarchism isn't really meant to be anarchism in the fullest sense, but more anarchism-but-only-within-a-particular-domain? It varies from person to person. I happen to like the message in A Cipherpunk's Manifesto, but I also happen to dislike blockchain mania.

curiousgal 8y ago

Well as a Tunisian with no access to PayPal, Bitcoin was the only way I could pay for goods and services online there. Nothing can undo the effect that had on my life.

mtve 8y ago

very well said, thank you so much.