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> it is hard to identify a specific economic problem which they currently solve It is hard to identify such a problem till you believe you can withdraw your mo

by viach 8y ago

> it is hard to identify a specific economic problem which they currently solve It is hard to identify such a problem till you believe you can withdraw your money from a bank anytime. Visiting a bank and getting an answer "please come tomorrow" for several weeks changes a person's view on cryptocurrencies and problems they could solve, imo.

cliffy 8y ago
Let's imagine a scenario where you're not able to withdraw from a bank due to insolvency. If you're in the US your deposits (principal + interest) are insured up to $250,000 by the federal government. [0] If the federal government is insolvent your cryptocurrency will be useless because you won't have reliable Internet access and thus you won't have access to the resources needed to make or verify transactions on your block-chain of choice. If anything, people will revert to cash or tangible assets if the federal government fails. No way crypto or technology in general is going to fill that gap. Now tell me, what institution is going to make a holder of cryptocurrency 'whole' again if something goes wrong with their wallet or the block-chain itself? [0] https://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/faq.html https://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/faq.html
- viach 8y ago
  > If you're in the US This is a quite rare use case, talking worldwide scale. > If the federal government is insolvent your cryptocurrency will be useless because you won't have reliable Internet access There is an option you missed - when a bank is insolvent and the government doesn't care. > people will revert to cash or tangible assets if the federal government fails Why not get abroad and spend there dark ages, caching out your X-coins? > what institution is going to make a holder of cryptocurrency 'whole' again if something goes wrong with their wallet or the block-chain itself? Valid point. But sometimes these risks are smaller comparing to unavoidable perspective of being robbed by government which is trying to escape default.
  - FabHK 8y ago
    > This is a quite rare use case, talking worldwide scale. It's not rare: "as of 31 January 2014, 113 countries have instituted some form of explicit deposit insurance up from 12 in 1974." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deposit_insurance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deposit_insurance
- stale2002 8y ago
  You are talking about societial collapse using the future tense, as if this is some hypothetical situation. It is not a hypothetical situation. It is happening right now in Venezuela. All you have to do is look how Venezuelans are using Bitcoin right NOW to understand it's value.
  - viach 8y ago
    I'm talking about this situation using my own experience , not hypothetical at all. It is obvious my English sucks, oh well ...
  - NathanCH 8y ago
    Venezuela is not using Bitcoin on any large scale. And if the people were, they would have lost 30% of their money in the last month. I don't think this is a good argument.
    - stale2002 8y ago
      Losing 30% of their money I'm the last month is an AMAZING deal for venzuelens. The Venezuelan dollar would have lost much more in value during that time period. Volatility doesn't matter when your nation's currency is way way worse. A mere 30% loss in a single month is an amazing deal, compared to what they have to deal with.
- bitcoinisqueen 8y ago
  >Now tell me, what institution is going to make a holder of cryptocurrency 'whole' again if something goes wrong with their wallet or the block-chain itself? There will be crypto lending banks and multi-sig custodial services to fill that use case. The code and math is open source and has been available for a decade. Unbelievable how HN has tech dinosaurs that can't be bothered to check all the open source implementations available for the particular problem/use csse they are seeking to solve. That is so 2009.
tootie 8y ago
Imagine trying to pay for something with crypto and having the seller deride it as fake money that they refuse to accept. That is illegal with officially minted currency.
- hybridsole 8y ago
  I'll give you $5k for a bitcoin, and I could find you 100 people within 100 miles of you who would do the same thing today. It has value because people give it value.
- stale2002 8y ago
  That's not true at all. You are absolutely allowed to put up a sign are your store that says "we only accept bottle caps as payment". Legal tender is only regarding DEBTS. It does not force you to accept pennies at your grocery store. You can turn down USD for payment all you like.
- sincerely 8y ago
  That's not true either as a universal statement (as laws vary from country to country regarding accepting officially minted currency) or in the US specifically (stores are free to not accept cash, for instance).
anjc 8y ago
Just try and send a transaction that a bank doesn't expect, like an international transfer, or a Western Union transaction and see what happens to your account. And this is in a modern, wealthy country. You're spot on, this gives you a new perspective on the benefits of crypto.

by viach 8y ago

cliffy 8y ago

Let's imagine a scenario where you're not able to withdraw from a bank due to insolvency. If you're in the US your deposits (principal + interest) are insured up to $250,000 by the federal government. [0] If the federal government is insolvent your cryptocurrency will be useless because you won't have reliable Internet access and thus you won't have access to the resources needed to make or verify transactions on your block-chain of choice. If anything, people will revert to cash or tangible assets if the federal government fails. No way crypto or technology in general is going to fill that gap. Now tell me, what institution is going to make a holder of cryptocurrency 'whole' again if something goes wrong with their wallet or the block-chain itself? [0] https://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/faq.html https://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/faq.html

viach 8y ago
> If you're in the US This is a quite rare use case, talking worldwide scale. > If the federal government is insolvent your cryptocurrency will be useless because you won't have reliable Internet access There is an option you missed - when a bank is insolvent and the government doesn't care. > people will revert to cash or tangible assets if the federal government fails Why not get abroad and spend there dark ages, caching out your X-coins? > what institution is going to make a holder of cryptocurrency 'whole' again if something goes wrong with their wallet or the block-chain itself? Valid point. But sometimes these risks are smaller comparing to unavoidable perspective of being robbed by government which is trying to escape default.
- FabHK 8y ago
  > This is a quite rare use case, talking worldwide scale. It's not rare: "as of 31 January 2014, 113 countries have instituted some form of explicit deposit insurance up from 12 in 1974." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deposit_insurance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deposit_insurance
stale2002 8y ago
You are talking about societial collapse using the future tense, as if this is some hypothetical situation. It is not a hypothetical situation. It is happening right now in Venezuela. All you have to do is look how Venezuelans are using Bitcoin right NOW to understand it's value.
- viach 8y ago
  I'm talking about this situation using my own experience , not hypothetical at all. It is obvious my English sucks, oh well ...
- NathanCH 8y ago
  Venezuela is not using Bitcoin on any large scale. And if the people were, they would have lost 30% of their money in the last month. I don't think this is a good argument.
  - stale2002 8y ago
    Losing 30% of their money I'm the last month is an AMAZING deal for venzuelens. The Venezuelan dollar would have lost much more in value during that time period. Volatility doesn't matter when your nation's currency is way way worse. A mere 30% loss in a single month is an amazing deal, compared to what they have to deal with.
bitcoinisqueen 8y ago
>Now tell me, what institution is going to make a holder of cryptocurrency 'whole' again if something goes wrong with their wallet or the block-chain itself? There will be crypto lending banks and multi-sig custodial services to fill that use case. The code and math is open source and has been available for a decade. Unbelievable how HN has tech dinosaurs that can't be bothered to check all the open source implementations available for the particular problem/use csse they are seeking to solve. That is so 2009.

tootie 8y ago

Imagine trying to pay for something with crypto and having the seller deride it as fake money that they refuse to accept. That is illegal with officially minted currency.

hybridsole 8y ago
I'll give you $5k for a bitcoin, and I could find you 100 people within 100 miles of you who would do the same thing today. It has value because people give it value.
stale2002 8y ago
That's not true at all. You are absolutely allowed to put up a sign are your store that says "we only accept bottle caps as payment". Legal tender is only regarding DEBTS. It does not force you to accept pennies at your grocery store. You can turn down USD for payment all you like.
sincerely 8y ago
That's not true either as a universal statement (as laws vary from country to country regarding accepting officially minted currency) or in the US specifically (stores are free to not accept cash, for instance).

anjc 8y ago

Just try and send a transaction that a bank doesn't expect, like an international transfer, or a Western Union transaction and see what happens to your account. And this is in a modern, wealthy country. You're spot on, this gives you a new perspective on the benefits of crypto.