4 ms·

Does disagreeing with a single (admittedly shitty) law really mean you would align with Brexit? What a terrible situation Europe is slipping into.

garmaine 8y ago
How should he respond instead? Complacency?
- lil_cain 8y ago
  Does the average American respond to a stupid law by campaigning for secession?
  - garmaine 8y ago
    Like leaving NAFTA? Yes, yes they do.
  - toiletfuneral 8y ago
    Well my hometown has an actual armed separatist militia over California banning .50 cals....so to answer you question: definitely. Also try talking to any Texan outside of Austin.
- monkeynotes 8y ago
  It's not for me to prescribe the response, I am genuinely curious about how close to the line people who dislike Brexit are. Living in the EU, how close are people feeling to saying 'fuck it, let's do it live' and just winging it like the UK is preparing to do? Personally, if you are interested, I feel like Brexit leaves everyone worse off overall. The UK will continue to implement just as stupid up-tight fear laws and stifle creativity and productivity in exchange for perceived 'safety'. The EU's copyright proposal is bad, but Theresa May's approach to solving the UK's perceived moral and ethnic threats is likely worse.
  - garmaine 8y ago
    False dichotomy perhaps. One can be pro-Brexit while not liking Theresa May’s government’s handling of the mandate.
    - monkeynotes 8y ago
      I honestly don't know how a pro-Brexit government could be anything but unfavourable. Brexit is born out of small minded nationalism. The people who voted for it did so in fear of 'other', the people who promoted it were liars and shysters who have pretty nefarious agendas. I do get your point though, I think my mind is just clouded with disappointment and a feeling of loss for my country of origin and all my friends and family who live there.
      - garmaine 8y ago
        I won’t respond to an ad hominem. But I would suggest giving an alternative position the benefit of doubt in assuming there are legitimate reasons to hold that view and investigate what they might be. Tell me, what supposition(s) would have you believe EU-exit to be the correct choice? If you are engaging honestly you should have an answer for that.
        monkeynotes 8y ago
        For an EU exit to be an agreeable choice, well at the risk of being drawn into an argument based on inappropriately simplified premisses, but here goes... To exit the EU I think a fundamental member nation like the UK would need to observe, without cynicism, that the EU was somehow now incompatible with the UK's long-term socio-economic plans. The UK would then need to make a thorough exit plan that demonstrably showed, again without cynicism, how the UK and its people would prosper and continue to support its allies and uphold it's principles and commitments. This plan would then need to be proposed to the people in clear terms, without bias, without a marketing budget in an engaged bipartisan, honest manner. In this day and age it really is not hard to see what is wrong with politics. It's so easy to imagine a 'better' way of doing almost anything. There is far too much polarity, one-upmanship, ego, self serving, and down-right 'fuck you' to the opposition. Trump and others literally fuck over the previous incumbent's changes just for the status and message it sends. Almost nothing is done for 'the people', everything is done for show and status. There simply is no substance any more.
- Maken 8y ago
  You could be, for example, remember that the UK already had a internet filtering program which forced ISPs to monitor all the content shared by users within the UK, and the UK government was forced to withdraw it because it was incompatible with the EU Charter of fundamental rights. Yes, that same charter that is going to be repelled after the Brexit.
  - monkeynotes 8y ago
    Exactly. Thinking that the UK without the EU is going to do any better is either naive or willingly ignorant. With people like May at the helm the UK is already well on its way to a special episode of Black Mirror.
pmlnr 8y ago
warning: heavily political and opinionated content below. Due to it's tiny size in land, I believe Europe should be a single country. I still believe in the idea of EU: what it stands for, what it means. However, the past couple of years have been terrible. The whole Brexit vote only gone through because one can't fight lies with logic and nobody from the Remain side realised this. (Yes, lies, admitted by Leave campaign faces, see morning TV interview the next morning). Everyone sat back, completely ignorant to the option that people will believe those who show up in their village halls with a speech, even if it's mostly made up. The whole reaction of the EU to Brexit is that Britain made and idiotic decision and the EU will not bend due to this. Divorces happen, sometimes it's stupid, like in this case, but that doesn't mean the sides need to be assholes towards each other. Apart from Brexit, there is still no central response or governing to the immigration through the Mediterranean and it's been a serious problem for years; it gave enough ground for the Hungarian governing party to build a hate driven election campaign around it and win with it. And than suddenly that complete madness copyright law idea pops up. This is not the EU I voted to join as a Hungarian in 2004. I might have been under-informed, and the EU might always have been like this, but if it does, something needs to change. So, answering your question: no, one law is not enough. It's a long series of "wth?" reaction from my side, including no decision decisions, stiff attitude, pitiful procedures like .eu termination, which goes way beyond mere politics - think of personal domains -, and genuinely bad law ideas. Enough of these can drive someone away from an originally beautiful and invaluable union.

garmaine 8y ago

How should he respond instead? Complacency?

lil_cain 8y ago
Does the average American respond to a stupid law by campaigning for secession?
- garmaine 8y ago
  Like leaving NAFTA? Yes, yes they do.
- toiletfuneral 8y ago
  Well my hometown has an actual armed separatist militia over California banning .50 cals....so to answer you question: definitely. Also try talking to any Texan outside of Austin.
monkeynotes 8y ago
It's not for me to prescribe the response, I am genuinely curious about how close to the line people who dislike Brexit are. Living in the EU, how close are people feeling to saying 'fuck it, let's do it live' and just winging it like the UK is preparing to do? Personally, if you are interested, I feel like Brexit leaves everyone worse off overall. The UK will continue to implement just as stupid up-tight fear laws and stifle creativity and productivity in exchange for perceived 'safety'. The EU's copyright proposal is bad, but Theresa May's approach to solving the UK's perceived moral and ethnic threats is likely worse.
- garmaine 8y ago
  False dichotomy perhaps. One can be pro-Brexit while not liking Theresa May’s government’s handling of the mandate.
  - monkeynotes 8y ago
    I honestly don't know how a pro-Brexit government could be anything but unfavourable. Brexit is born out of small minded nationalism. The people who voted for it did so in fear of 'other', the people who promoted it were liars and shysters who have pretty nefarious agendas. I do get your point though, I think my mind is just clouded with disappointment and a feeling of loss for my country of origin and all my friends and family who live there.
    - garmaine 8y ago
      I won’t respond to an ad hominem. But I would suggest giving an alternative position the benefit of doubt in assuming there are legitimate reasons to hold that view and investigate what they might be. Tell me, what supposition(s) would have you believe EU-exit to be the correct choice? If you are engaging honestly you should have an answer for that.
      - monkeynotes 8y ago
        For an EU exit to be an agreeable choice, well at the risk of being drawn into an argument based on inappropriately simplified premisses, but here goes... To exit the EU I think a fundamental member nation like the UK would need to observe, without cynicism, that the EU was somehow now incompatible with the UK's long-term socio-economic plans. The UK would then need to make a thorough exit plan that demonstrably showed, again without cynicism, how the UK and its people would prosper and continue to support its allies and uphold it's principles and commitments. This plan would then need to be proposed to the people in clear terms, without bias, without a marketing budget in an engaged bipartisan, honest manner. In this day and age it really is not hard to see what is wrong with politics. It's so easy to imagine a 'better' way of doing almost anything. There is far too much polarity, one-upmanship, ego, self serving, and down-right 'fuck you' to the opposition. Trump and others literally fuck over the previous incumbent's changes just for the status and message it sends. Almost nothing is done for 'the people', everything is done for show and status. There simply is no substance any more.
Maken 8y ago
You could be, for example, remember that the UK already had a internet filtering program which forced ISPs to monitor all the content shared by users within the UK, and the UK government was forced to withdraw it because it was incompatible with the EU Charter of fundamental rights. Yes, that same charter that is going to be repelled after the Brexit.
- monkeynotes 8y ago
  Exactly. Thinking that the UK without the EU is going to do any better is either naive or willingly ignorant. With people like May at the helm the UK is already well on its way to a special episode of Black Mirror.

pmlnr 8y ago

warning: heavily political and opinionated content below. Due to it's tiny size in land, I believe Europe should be a single country. I still believe in the idea of EU: what it stands for, what it means. However, the past couple of years have been terrible. The whole Brexit vote only gone through because one can't fight lies with logic and nobody from the Remain side realised this. (Yes, lies, admitted by Leave campaign faces, see morning TV interview the next morning). Everyone sat back, completely ignorant to the option that people will believe those who show up in their village halls with a speech, even if it's mostly made up. The whole reaction of the EU to Brexit is that Britain made and idiotic decision and the EU will not bend due to this. Divorces happen, sometimes it's stupid, like in this case, but that doesn't mean the sides need to be assholes towards each other. Apart from Brexit, there is still no central response or governing to the immigration through the Mediterranean and it's been a serious problem for years; it gave enough ground for the Hungarian governing party to build a hate driven election campaign around it and win with it. And than suddenly that complete madness copyright law idea pops up. This is not the EU I voted to join as a Hungarian in 2004. I might have been under-informed, and the EU might always have been like this, but if it does, something needs to change. So, answering your question: no, one law is not enough. It's a long series of "wth?" reaction from my side, including no decision decisions, stiff attitude, pitiful procedures like .eu termination, which goes way beyond mere politics - think of personal domains -, and genuinely bad law ideas. Enough of these can drive someone away from an originally beautiful and invaluable union.