4 ms·

In a recent thread about the Daimler diesel recall, a poster claims the issue is more systemic than just cheating at individual companies. > The actual program

In a recent thread about the Daimler diesel recall, a poster claims the issue is more systemic than just cheating at individual companies. > The actual programmer & designer of the software is the supplier of the engine control units (ECUs), in most cases Bosch. The software that they supply actually already contains these cheating routines. These routines are delivered as a part of the software packages, and can be turned on/off with some flags. It is up to the auto company how to set these flags. [0] Is it legal for Bosch to sell ECUs that can cheat? Should it remain legal? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17286697 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17286697

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
Cheating and adjustable for compliance in a particular locale are the same thing. Being able to fine tune how the engine runs to comply with the law and to "cheat" the law requires the same functionality. Any keyboard that you use to quote Shakespeare can be employed just as effectively to type dirty words.
- slededit 8y ago
  A routine to detect the exact circumstances of the government emissions test, including the amount of times the steering wheel was moved was needed to fine tune the engine? Its just not credible.
  - lttlrck 8y ago
    Isn’t what happens after that condition is detected the critical point? That’s the part that I’d imagine needs to be modified/tweaked as emission standards change.
    - slededit 8y ago
      What legal basis is there for a car to behave differently during an emissions test? Its not like it has to machine learn which jurisdiction its in to tune its emissions, they know which region its going to be sold in and can make the appropriate settings. Even if some sort of detection were needed the emissions test isn't your key as not every car undergoes it, only a sample.
floatrock 8y ago
A lot of the early video game cheat codes were really just testing interfaces -- turn on god mode so you could quickly get to that part of the map that was tweaked in the latest build, etc. There was clearly nothing honest in this scandal, but I'm sure a Bosch engineer can make an honest case that many of these flags are testing and debugging modes that need to be present to fully integrate the product into the engineering and QA pipeline. I've certainly shipped product that has some hidden modes and features used just for my testing and healthcheck infrastructure.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

Cheating and adjustable for compliance in a particular locale are the same thing. Being able to fine tune how the engine runs to comply with the law and to "cheat" the law requires the same functionality. Any keyboard that you use to quote Shakespeare can be employed just as effectively to type dirty words.

slededit 8y ago
A routine to detect the exact circumstances of the government emissions test, including the amount of times the steering wheel was moved was needed to fine tune the engine? Its just not credible.
- lttlrck 8y ago
  Isn’t what happens after that condition is detected the critical point? That’s the part that I’d imagine needs to be modified/tweaked as emission standards change.
  - slededit 8y ago
    What legal basis is there for a car to behave differently during an emissions test? Its not like it has to machine learn which jurisdiction its in to tune its emissions, they know which region its going to be sold in and can make the appropriate settings. Even if some sort of detection were needed the emissions test isn't your key as not every car undergoes it, only a sample.

floatrock 8y ago

A lot of the early video game cheat codes were really just testing interfaces -- turn on god mode so you could quickly get to that part of the map that was tweaked in the latest build, etc. There was clearly nothing honest in this scandal, but I'm sure a Bosch engineer can make an honest case that many of these flags are testing and debugging modes that need to be present to fully integrate the product into the engineering and QA pipeline. I've certainly shipped product that has some hidden modes and features used just for my testing and healthcheck infrastructure.