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So China is winning by giving out loans that will never be paid back?

mistermann 8y ago
Yes, because they take assets in lieu of payment. You don't get from 3rd world country to challenging the world super power in 20 years by being dumb. On a related tangent, if you don't mind - I'm trying to test my "tone detector" - it indicated sarcasm in your comment, as if the comment to which you were replying was not just wrong but dumb - how accurate was I?
- portpecos 8y ago
  This is exactly what happened with the Hambantota Port. Sri Lanka asked for billions in loans from China to build a second port in Hambantota, Sri Lanka. After it was built, the naval port didn’t get any shipping/cargo traffic so Sri Lanka couldn’t pay back the Billions. China offered to refinance the loan, how? Sri Lanka turned over control of the port to the Chinese Government under a lease of 100 years and Sri Lanka gets to pay a lower amount on the loan. Now US Intelligence are seeing an uptick in Chinese Navy Warships patrolling the Indian Ocean and fears about Hambantota turning into a Chinese Military Port. This is being called the String of Pearls Theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_of_Pearls_(Indian_Ocean) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_of_Pearls_(Indian_Ocean... The model has already happened in Djibouti, where a Chinese Military Port is currently operational. US Generals have voiced their concern: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-djibouti/significant-consequences-if-china-takes-key-port-in-djibouti-u-s-general-idUSKCN1GI2V0 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-djibouti/signif...
  - mistermann 8y ago
    Exactly. It's odd how some people can clearly see (and acknowledge) these things, while others seem literally unable to see them, almost as if they have some sort of a psychological filter hiding portions of the full spectrum of reality. I wonder if I suffer from the same thing, but different portions of the spectrum. I find it an interesting and useful way in which to observe the world and disagreements between people.
    - KarlRutnick 8y ago
      It's kinda funny how Americans still thinks US is doing shit to help anyone else besides themselves and their business interests. China is now doing the same thing the west/ImF/world Bank have always done. But in the case of China they don't run around toppling government and the countries do get general infrastructure while the west usually just built the bare minimum to get the resources out. Yes its imperialism but I'd take the Chinese version over the horrors of the western Empire any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
      - mywittyname 8y ago
        I think Chinese leadership have a different set of incentives than Americans do. American businesses are about minimizing production costs in order to sell as much as possible in the US market. While the Chinese government seems to prefer expanding the market for their domestic good by raising the stands of living in developing countries. Similar to how the US handled Japan and South Korea instead of Latin America and the middle east.
      - mistermann 8y ago
        > It's kinda funny how Americans still thinks US is doing shit to help anyone else besides themselves and their business interests. It depends on what you mean by that statement I suppose. It sounds like you are of the opinion that literally every single foreign aid initiative the United States of America undertakes is, at it's core, entirely (not partially, as I would suspect the case to be, but entirely) for the purposes of advancing the interests of American businesses. Is that a more or less proper characterization of what you've said, or have I misunderstood? And if it is proper, how might you have come to know this? I mean, for the sake of argument let's assume it's true - if this what they were really up to, I'd think most of the corresponding proof would be known only to a fairly select group of trustworthy insiders. How would you have found out these details? This story doesn't seem to add up, but maybe I'm missing something? > China is now doing the same thing the west/ImF/world Bank have always done. The exact same thing, or something similar?
        8y ago
- KKKKkkkk1 8y ago
  On a related tangent, if you don't mind - I'm trying to test my "tone detector" - it indicated sarcasm in your comment, as if the comment to which you were replying was not just wrong but dumb - how accurate was I? It's not the comment that's dumb, it's the strategy. The Soviet Union used to dump tons of money into client states, and all that Russia has to show for it now is a naval base in Syria. China has hundreds of millions of peasants who are living in abject poverty. Doesn't it have better uses for that money?
  - mistermann 8y ago
    > It's not the comment that's dumb, it's the strategy. Really? Based on what, the failure of the Soviet Union? If you were to look a little closer, you may discover the Chinese aren't executing an identical strategy. The world is extremely complex, using blunt comparisons like the above won't yield very accurate results. At the very least, you would probably benefit from having a more open mind.

Yes, because they take assets in lieu of payment. You don't get from 3rd world country to challenging the world super power in 20 years by being dumb. On a related tangent, if you don't mind - I'm trying to test my "tone detector" - it indicated sarcasm in your comment, as if the comment to which you were replying was not just wrong but dumb - how accurate was I?

portpecos 8y ago
This is exactly what happened with the Hambantota Port. Sri Lanka asked for billions in loans from China to build a second port in Hambantota, Sri Lanka. After it was built, the naval port didn’t get any shipping/cargo traffic so Sri Lanka couldn’t pay back the Billions. China offered to refinance the loan, how? Sri Lanka turned over control of the port to the Chinese Government under a lease of 100 years and Sri Lanka gets to pay a lower amount on the loan. Now US Intelligence are seeing an uptick in Chinese Navy Warships patrolling the Indian Ocean and fears about Hambantota turning into a Chinese Military Port. This is being called the String of Pearls Theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_of_Pearls_(Indian_Ocean) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_of_Pearls_(Indian_Ocean... The model has already happened in Djibouti, where a Chinese Military Port is currently operational. US Generals have voiced their concern: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-djibouti/significant-consequences-if-china-takes-key-port-in-djibouti-u-s-general-idUSKCN1GI2V0 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-djibouti/signif...
- mistermann 8y ago
  Exactly. It's odd how some people can clearly see (and acknowledge) these things, while others seem literally unable to see them, almost as if they have some sort of a psychological filter hiding portions of the full spectrum of reality. I wonder if I suffer from the same thing, but different portions of the spectrum. I find it an interesting and useful way in which to observe the world and disagreements between people.
  - KarlRutnick 8y ago
    It's kinda funny how Americans still thinks US is doing shit to help anyone else besides themselves and their business interests. China is now doing the same thing the west/ImF/world Bank have always done. But in the case of China they don't run around toppling government and the countries do get general infrastructure while the west usually just built the bare minimum to get the resources out. Yes its imperialism but I'd take the Chinese version over the horrors of the western Empire any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
    - mywittyname 8y ago
      I think Chinese leadership have a different set of incentives than Americans do. American businesses are about minimizing production costs in order to sell as much as possible in the US market. While the Chinese government seems to prefer expanding the market for their domestic good by raising the stands of living in developing countries. Similar to how the US handled Japan and South Korea instead of Latin America and the middle east.
    - mistermann 8y ago
      > It's kinda funny how Americans still thinks US is doing shit to help anyone else besides themselves and their business interests. It depends on what you mean by that statement I suppose. It sounds like you are of the opinion that literally every single foreign aid initiative the United States of America undertakes is, at it's core, entirely (not partially, as I would suspect the case to be, but entirely) for the purposes of advancing the interests of American businesses. Is that a more or less proper characterization of what you've said, or have I misunderstood? And if it is proper, how might you have come to know this? I mean, for the sake of argument let's assume it's true - if this what they were really up to, I'd think most of the corresponding proof would be known only to a fairly select group of trustworthy insiders. How would you have found out these details? This story doesn't seem to add up, but maybe I'm missing something? > China is now doing the same thing the west/ImF/world Bank have always done. The exact same thing, or something similar?
      - 8y ago
KKKKkkkk1 8y ago
On a related tangent, if you don't mind - I'm trying to test my "tone detector" - it indicated sarcasm in your comment, as if the comment to which you were replying was not just wrong but dumb - how accurate was I? It's not the comment that's dumb, it's the strategy. The Soviet Union used to dump tons of money into client states, and all that Russia has to show for it now is a naval base in Syria. China has hundreds of millions of peasants who are living in abject poverty. Doesn't it have better uses for that money?
- mistermann 8y ago
  > It's not the comment that's dumb, it's the strategy. Really? Based on what, the failure of the Soviet Union? If you were to look a little closer, you may discover the Chinese aren't executing an identical strategy. The world is extremely complex, using blunt comparisons like the above won't yield very accurate results. At the very least, you would probably benefit from having a more open mind.