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And of course Obama used it more than all other presidents combined. Which is why a libertarian had a really odd choice to make last election: go with someone

And of course Obama used it more than all other presidents combined. Which is why a libertarian had a really odd choice to make last election: go with someone who has hollowed out the constitution in her time in office as much as possible, or go with someone who promises to hollow out different parts of it. Or not vote.

dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
> And of course Obama used it more than all other presidents combined. Could you provide a source for that?
- tuxxy 8y ago
  A quick Google search would do you well. Take this article for example: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/16/whistleblowers-double-standard-obama-david-petraeus-chelsea-manning https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/16/whistleblowe... Or even this one: https://www.longislandpress.com/2017/01/14/obamas-legacy-historic-war-on-whistleblowers/ https://www.longislandpress.com/2017/01/14/obamas-legacy-his...
- cam_l 8y ago
  Not the op but.. http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/10/jake-tapper/cnns-tapper-obama-has-used-espionage-act-more-all-/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/10/...
tpush 8y ago
Wouldn't a libertarian have voted for Gary Johnson?
- jakelazaroff 8y ago
  That's essentially the same as not voting. Pragmatically, your three choices are Democrat, Republican, or "whatever the rest of the country decides". (That's if you live in a swing state; in a solidly red or blue state, "whatever the rest of the country decides" is really your only option.)
  - mcculley 8y ago
    It is not the same as not voting. Even if one disagrees with what the rest of the country decides, one should vote. If more people voted their conscience, the parties would be forced to reform.
    - jakelazaroff 8y ago
      You're speaking hypothetically, but I'm speaking pragmatically. In the 2020 Presidential election, a Democrat or Republican will be elected, and a third-party vote will have the same effect on that as not voting: none, (arguably, unless it comes at the expense of a Democrat or Republican vote).
      - boomboomsubban 8y ago
        Obama broke the record for most whistleblowers tried under the Espionage Act, and Trump is on pace to beat that record. So if that issue matters to you, voting Republican or Democrat has the same effect as not voting. Same thing if you are opposed to the wars. Real pragmatic choice.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - mcculley 8y ago
        You are speaking hyperbolically. I voted in the 2016 election. I did not vote for Clinton or Trump. My vote had a very small effect on those who would try to win my vote. If I had not voted at all, that effect would be less. If more people voted their conscience instead of playing a losing game against the entrenched parties, the parties would listen to the voters.

dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago

> And of course Obama used it more than all other presidents combined. Could you provide a source for that?

tuxxy 8y ago
A quick Google search would do you well. Take this article for example: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/16/whistleblowers-double-standard-obama-david-petraeus-chelsea-manning https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/16/whistleblowe... Or even this one: https://www.longislandpress.com/2017/01/14/obamas-legacy-historic-war-on-whistleblowers/ https://www.longislandpress.com/2017/01/14/obamas-legacy-his...
cam_l 8y ago
Not the op but.. http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/10/jake-tapper/cnns-tapper-obama-has-used-espionage-act-more-all-/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/10/...

tpush 8y ago

Wouldn't a libertarian have voted for Gary Johnson?

jakelazaroff 8y ago
That's essentially the same as not voting. Pragmatically, your three choices are Democrat, Republican, or "whatever the rest of the country decides". (That's if you live in a swing state; in a solidly red or blue state, "whatever the rest of the country decides" is really your only option.)
- mcculley 8y ago
  It is not the same as not voting. Even if one disagrees with what the rest of the country decides, one should vote. If more people voted their conscience, the parties would be forced to reform.
  - jakelazaroff 8y ago
    You're speaking hypothetically, but I'm speaking pragmatically. In the 2020 Presidential election, a Democrat or Republican will be elected, and a third-party vote will have the same effect on that as not voting: none, (arguably, unless it comes at the expense of a Democrat or Republican vote).
    - boomboomsubban 8y ago
      Obama broke the record for most whistleblowers tried under the Espionage Act, and Trump is on pace to beat that record. So if that issue matters to you, voting Republican or Democrat has the same effect as not voting. Same thing if you are opposed to the wars. Real pragmatic choice.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - mcculley 8y ago
      You are speaking hyperbolically. I voted in the 2016 election. I did not vote for Clinton or Trump. My vote had a very small effect on those who would try to win my vote. If I had not voted at all, that effect would be less. If more people voted their conscience instead of playing a losing game against the entrenched parties, the parties would listen to the voters.