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You seem quite defensive about keto and missed most of the point of my post. I wasn't writing about keto specifically, I just needed a few examples and that was

You seem quite defensive about keto and missed most of the point of my post. I wasn't writing about keto specifically, I just needed a few examples and that was one that came to mind at the time. You can sub in "eating nothing but sauerkraut and grapefruit" or anything else that springs to kind. My post was about self-experimentation in general. The "scares" you refer to, I did not claim were a result of a low carb diet - they were examples of the types of long-term issues that some of us would like to avoid. Unfortunately the impact of diet & lifestyle on those can be decades in the making - not to mention that some, like Alzheimer's, don't allow for do-overs - which makes it rather hard for an individual to employ self-experimentation to avoid them. The fact is that an individual won't be able to determine if consuming more or less of vitamin X or mineral Y will increase or decrease their probability of developing condition Z via self-experimentation for most of the scary conditions, let alone if vitamin X needs to be present in combination with compound Z, etc. > choose your poison: do you think it's safer to be fat? This is a false dichotomy. The choice is not keto or obesity. And losing/maintaining weight is one of the short-term & measurable goals I was alluding to. It's trivially achievable in a fairly short time with various approaches and keto is certainly one of them. Many of the others require less self-discipline than keto however, and a number of those have orders of magnitude more man-years of aggregated long-duration testing behind them. > But don't believe the army of liars that's been spreading FUD consistently over the years. That's good advice, but how do I identify which one is the army of liars and which one is the army of truth? :)

narag 8y ago
How body work is a complex subject indeed. But if you remember, this all began as a response to joshgel complaining that it's impossible to tell good advice from bad one. I'm not proposing that every person invents own diet, just to use common sense if a diet works for you and another doesn't. As to how to identify who's lying, how about people telling lies? When Atkins wrote the book in the seventies, his critics told that his diet didn't work and provoked a series of terrible side effects, none of what was true. The fact was that thousands of people were trying the diet and it worked and it didn't make them sick. So where did the criticism come from? You can tell me that there are unknown risks and ask for caution. But if someone is saying in no uncertain terms what they said in the face of evidence, that's a strong indication that they have no interest in truth. Of course, diet is not the only matter in what some powerful entities try to manipulate the public, it happens in a variety of matters where science, politics and private interests meet. The first principle here is follow the money.
- skookum 8y ago
  You first make the claim that your chosen diet must be safe because if it weren't safe there would be evidence to the contrary. Then you dismiss those people who try to bring forward evidence to the contrary as liars. You can't have it both ways. It's funny that you should bring up Atkins and then suggest "following the money"... Atkins Nutritionals sued some of the people that you are labelling as liars, and lost all of their lawsuits. If there's one thing I've learned from my two decades living in America it's that when a corporation loses a lawsuit to individuals here, the individuals are probably barking up the right tree. Have you considered the possibility that what you are terming "liars" is just "people that disagree with my strongly-held belief"?

narag 8y ago

How body work is a complex subject indeed. But if you remember, this all began as a response to joshgel complaining that it's impossible to tell good advice from bad one. I'm not proposing that every person invents own diet, just to use common sense if a diet works for you and another doesn't. As to how to identify who's lying, how about people telling lies? When Atkins wrote the book in the seventies, his critics told that his diet didn't work and provoked a series of terrible side effects, none of what was true. The fact was that thousands of people were trying the diet and it worked and it didn't make them sick. So where did the criticism come from? You can tell me that there are unknown risks and ask for caution. But if someone is saying in no uncertain terms what they said in the face of evidence, that's a strong indication that they have no interest in truth. Of course, diet is not the only matter in what some powerful entities try to manipulate the public, it happens in a variety of matters where science, politics and private interests meet. The first principle here is follow the money.

skookum 8y ago
You first make the claim that your chosen diet must be safe because if it weren't safe there would be evidence to the contrary. Then you dismiss those people who try to bring forward evidence to the contrary as liars. You can't have it both ways. It's funny that you should bring up Atkins and then suggest "following the money"... Atkins Nutritionals sued some of the people that you are labelling as liars, and lost all of their lawsuits. If there's one thing I've learned from my two decades living in America it's that when a corporation loses a lawsuit to individuals here, the individuals are probably barking up the right tree. Have you considered the possibility that what you are terming "liars" is just "people that disagree with my strongly-held belief"?