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A cynical take on that would be that Jefferson and the other southern aristocrats wanted to limit the supply of slaves so that the value of their estates would

A cynical take on that would be that Jefferson and the other southern aristocrats wanted to limit the supply of slaves so that the value of their estates would skyrocket. I don't actually know much about the time so don't take that musing too seriously.

DrScump 8y ago
Stopping the importation of slaves did not stop the growth of slavery by itself. Those born of chattel slaves became slaves themselves from birth.
- pretendscholar 8y ago
  Right and since Jefferson and others had large estates of the only viable slaves they would dramatically increase the value of each slave on the plantation because there was no longer any outside source.
TangoTrotFox 8y ago
I would recommend reading about the founding fathers, including Jefferson. Jefferson wrote extensively against slavery and even included as such in the initial draft of the declaration of independence (without going so far as to make it unlawful) - but that was apparently stripped out by the Continental Congress. In 1784 he attempted to pass legislation federally banning slavery - it failed to pass by one vote. Of course this might seem hypocritical given he indeed did own a substantial number of slaves, but as today the appeal of convenience often outweighs ideology when systems are widespread. For instance Warren Buffet has argued that a larger tax on the ultra-rich would be socially beneficial and I think he certainly does believe that, yet of course he himself does everything he can to minimize his own tax bill in the mean time. On the consumer level, I doubt any of us really support slavery or systems of near slavery yet it rarely stops us from buying Apple products in the near slavery case, or Hershey/Nestle/etc chocolate in the literal slavery case. On abolition versus the phasing out issue, Jefferson also wrote there. He wanted to phase out slavery and ensure the slaves were skilled, educated, and had sufficient resources to make it on their own. He felt that abruptly abolishing slavery would lead to violence, both from dependent slave owners who would not go peacefully as well as from slaves themselves. He also thought that abrupt abolition would lead to poor outcomes for the slaves as they would set free in a land driven by the merit of the individual with generally minimal to no education, skills, or ability. To avoid the system you mention where slave owners would simply entrench themselves by 'banning competition', he even proposed the notion of the US government buying slave children for a nominal fee, training them, and then sending them abroad (to Santo Domingo in particular) to make their way as skilled freemen. Essentially, a way to ease the transition from slavery to freedom for slave owners and slaves alike. One must say such a system feels dystopic, yet on the other hand it's interesting to consider whether such an idea would have had a better social outcome in the longrun. The civil war divides of this nation remain to this very day, as does the inequity of the now long distanced descendents of former slaves. https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Founding-Fathers-and-Slavery-1269536 https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Founding-Fathers-and-Sl... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_slavery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_slavery
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  Nestle claims to have a zero tolerance policy toward slavery, see https://www.nestle.com/ask-nestle/human-rights/answers/nestle-child-labour-supply-chains https://www.nestle.com/ask-nestle/human-rights/answers/nestl... We have zero tolerance for illegal trafficking or slavery. If we find any evidence of it then we report it to appropriate authorities immediately.
  - TangoTrotFox 8y ago
    I'm curious. Did you expect them to praise and embrace slavery on their website? Slavery enables companies such as Nestle to source their resources for costs far below what they would have to pay otherwise. They do so while simultaneously condemning slavery and making some token efforts to combat it. Just enough to keep their carefully crafted public relations positive enough that it doesn't effect their bottom line. Though for what it's worth, I doubt that any of Hershey, Nestle, etc actually 'like' slavery, but they love the profits it enables, and that's undoubtedly been the story throughout much of history.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
      Good points, thanks for the thoughtful response. I started reading this[1] Wikipedia entry. Troubling. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labor_in_cocoa_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labor_in_cocoa_productio...
- pretendscholar 8y ago
  Thanks for detailed reply.

DrScump 8y ago

Stopping the importation of slaves did not stop the growth of slavery by itself. Those born of chattel slaves became slaves themselves from birth.

pretendscholar 8y ago
Right and since Jefferson and others had large estates of the only viable slaves they would dramatically increase the value of each slave on the plantation because there was no longer any outside source.

TangoTrotFox 8y ago

I would recommend reading about the founding fathers, including Jefferson. Jefferson wrote extensively against slavery and even included as such in the initial draft of the declaration of independence (without going so far as to make it unlawful) - but that was apparently stripped out by the Continental Congress. In 1784 he attempted to pass legislation federally banning slavery - it failed to pass by one vote. Of course this might seem hypocritical given he indeed did own a substantial number of slaves, but as today the appeal of convenience often outweighs ideology when systems are widespread. For instance Warren Buffet has argued that a larger tax on the ultra-rich would be socially beneficial and I think he certainly does believe that, yet of course he himself does everything he can to minimize his own tax bill in the mean time. On the consumer level, I doubt any of us really support slavery or systems of near slavery yet it rarely stops us from buying Apple products in the near slavery case, or Hershey/Nestle/etc chocolate in the literal slavery case. On abolition versus the phasing out issue, Jefferson also wrote there. He wanted to phase out slavery and ensure the slaves were skilled, educated, and had sufficient resources to make it on their own. He felt that abruptly abolishing slavery would lead to violence, both from dependent slave owners who would not go peacefully as well as from slaves themselves. He also thought that abrupt abolition would lead to poor outcomes for the slaves as they would set free in a land driven by the merit of the individual with generally minimal to no education, skills, or ability. To avoid the system you mention where slave owners would simply entrench themselves by 'banning competition', he even proposed the notion of the US government buying slave children for a nominal fee, training them, and then sending them abroad (to Santo Domingo in particular) to make their way as skilled freemen. Essentially, a way to ease the transition from slavery to freedom for slave owners and slaves alike. One must say such a system feels dystopic, yet on the other hand it's interesting to consider whether such an idea would have had a better social outcome in the longrun. The civil war divides of this nation remain to this very day, as does the inequity of the now long distanced descendents of former slaves. https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Founding-Fathers-and-Slavery-1269536 https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Founding-Fathers-and-Sl... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_slavery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_slavery

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
Nestle claims to have a zero tolerance policy toward slavery, see https://www.nestle.com/ask-nestle/human-rights/answers/nestle-child-labour-supply-chains https://www.nestle.com/ask-nestle/human-rights/answers/nestl... We have zero tolerance for illegal trafficking or slavery. If we find any evidence of it then we report it to appropriate authorities immediately.
- TangoTrotFox 8y ago
  I'm curious. Did you expect them to praise and embrace slavery on their website? Slavery enables companies such as Nestle to source their resources for costs far below what they would have to pay otherwise. They do so while simultaneously condemning slavery and making some token efforts to combat it. Just enough to keep their carefully crafted public relations positive enough that it doesn't effect their bottom line. Though for what it's worth, I doubt that any of Hershey, Nestle, etc actually 'like' slavery, but they love the profits it enables, and that's undoubtedly been the story throughout much of history.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    Good points, thanks for the thoughtful response. I started reading this[1] Wikipedia entry. Troubling. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labor_in_cocoa_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labor_in_cocoa_productio...
pretendscholar 8y ago
Thanks for detailed reply.