5 ms·

The Asians are now systematically denied entry to the Academy and you are supporting it now.

Latteland 8y ago
No one from my high school in a southern capital city went to the ivy league as far as I know. I was a top student there, ended up getting my phd in cs from a top 20 research university, but not the ivy league. I have been on the west cost for 25 years working in top tech companies as a dev and leader (faangs etc) and I have never met a single person from my undergrad school - I have met people from my grad school. Should I have had a chance to go to an ivy league school or mit etc? Perhaps, I did apply but was rejected. I felt like because I was a white kid it didn't help me out there. Today I have so many people from mit, harvard, cmu etc working for me. But I did just fine, there was plenty of opportunity to succeed in other ways. But would the schools have benefited with a single person from my state or city, instead of more people from a big city prep school on the west coast? My family was much poorer than the typical white rich legacy at an ivy league. But i was white. Maybe it wouldn't have made a difference and I'm fortunate, I doubt it hurt me. I don't feel like I had a bad experience, but I'm just throwing this out there for the people complaining about prejudice because they are asian. My current company is full of successful, well educated asians, yet there were almost no black devs at google. Same for women. It was partly because there weren't any to interview or hire.
siosonel 8y ago
I am an Asian. I am against systematic denial of anyone. I say let anyone attend the school of their choice, using online access to overcome space constraints. As an Asian who've experienced discrimination first hand, I am saddened that necessary differences in the gravity of error correction, as applied to group discrimination, is not obvious to everyone. Correcting the effects of slavery is much more important because its effects are much more pervasive. Getting rejected by a top school is not as dire for a group as a while, especially for someone in a group that is not even a minority at those schools. But I could see how someone could say what you said (but hopefully with at least a bit of explanation to back it up?). Although the "denial of opportunity" seem systematic in both cases - Asians applying to Ivy League schools and enslaved African Americans in my examples - the latter is not due to space constraints. In contrast, Asians have not been or are under-represented. To me, that fact justifies a top school's effort to make access fairer to historically under-represented groups, whose cultural tendencies have been shaped long-term by outright denial.
- bruthafez 8y ago
  >Correcting the effects of slavery is much more important because its effects are much more pervasive. Uh, source? You're just making an arbitrary value judgement. Who are you to compare the effects of racism-against-blacks against the effects of racism-against-asians? You're making an arbitrary value judgement and then using that value judgement to justify systematic discriminations against Asians. You're also ignoring the fact that Asians were enslaved too in Japanese internment camps -- and what's more that slavery was more recent than African-American slavery. Weird to see you throw your own ethnicity under the bus in your haste to agree with the racist value judgements of elite bureaucrats tbh.
  - siosonel 8y ago
    And someone who insists on absolute racial blindness is not making a value judgement? Isn't the issue mostly about which group to feel sorry for, why, and how? And you want a literary or published source for that empathy? Or are you saying that it is not self evident that a group, one that has been enslaved for hundreds of years, is not disproportionately poorer, grow up in single-parent households, or experience incarceration? Is that pattern even possible without a history of systematic, long-term oppression? The way I see it, one group is arguing from a place of historical hardship, and the other is arguing from a place of privilege. I don't mean someone growing up poor in Appalachia as being privileged simply because s/he is white; to me, that historical background definitely counts towards raising diversity. I'm just trying to put myself in other people's shoes. It's not necessarily about race or ethnicity or recentness of oppression, it's the compounded interest of those oppressions and inability to rise out of that enforced debt. Our institutions have to factor that historical indebtedness. Unless you really put yourself in another person's shoes, I honestly don't think this discussion will go anywhere. I mean, imagine growing up poor in a single household family, going to lowly ranked high schools, being disproportionately more likely to be stopped over and imprisoned for minor offenses, and getting questioned about academic abilities constantly.
    - bruthafez 8y ago
      For someone who talks so much about empathy you ironically completely fail to empathize with Asians. You're making an emotional argument not a logical or reasoned one so I can tell your mind is the type that isn't persuaded by facts but instead by emotional rhetoric. I bet you cry during political speeches. You're not worth my time to try to persuade because you just demonstrated a thought process based on anecdotes and evidence and empathy you extend to only one marginalized party instead of both. So instead of giving you the "imagine you're a Cambodian first generation immigrant who gets shat on daily by society AND STILL has a fraction of the chance to get into Harvard as Michael Jordans son" I'll just say: good day to you sir and good luck with your half assed thought process and your attempts to ride the moral high horse of empathy when ironically extending empathy to only one party. Your thought process is flawed, your reasoning is flawed, and you utterly lack the empathy and compassion you claim to exault. Peace out and good luck with your half assed anecdote-based reasoning -- meanwhile I'll be chilling here looking at the data, calling a spade a spade, and calling a racist admissions process a racist admissions process. You don't get virtue points for throwing your ethnicity under the bus when your ethnicity is actively being marginalized btw. Can't even believe how racist you are rly. Good day to u sir

No one from my high school in a southern capital city went to the ivy league as far as I know. I was a top student there, ended up getting my phd in cs from a top 20 research university, but not the ivy league. I have been on the west cost for 25 years working in top tech companies as a dev and leader (faangs etc) and I have never met a single person from my undergrad school - I have met people from my grad school. Should I have had a chance to go to an ivy league school or mit etc? Perhaps, I did apply but was rejected. I felt like because I was a white kid it didn't help me out there. Today I have so many people from mit, harvard, cmu etc working for me. But I did just fine, there was plenty of opportunity to succeed in other ways. But would the schools have benefited with a single person from my state or city, instead of more people from a big city prep school on the west coast? My family was much poorer than the typical white rich legacy at an ivy league. But i was white. Maybe it wouldn't have made a difference and I'm fortunate, I doubt it hurt me. I don't feel like I had a bad experience, but I'm just throwing this out there for the people complaining about prejudice because they are asian. My current company is full of successful, well educated asians, yet there were almost no black devs at google. Same for women. It was partly because there weren't any to interview or hire.

siosonel 8y ago

I am an Asian. I am against systematic denial of anyone. I say let anyone attend the school of their choice, using online access to overcome space constraints. As an Asian who've experienced discrimination first hand, I am saddened that necessary differences in the gravity of error correction, as applied to group discrimination, is not obvious to everyone. Correcting the effects of slavery is much more important because its effects are much more pervasive. Getting rejected by a top school is not as dire for a group as a while, especially for someone in a group that is not even a minority at those schools. But I could see how someone could say what you said (but hopefully with at least a bit of explanation to back it up?). Although the "denial of opportunity" seem systematic in both cases - Asians applying to Ivy League schools and enslaved African Americans in my examples - the latter is not due to space constraints. In contrast, Asians have not been or are under-represented. To me, that fact justifies a top school's effort to make access fairer to historically under-represented groups, whose cultural tendencies have been shaped long-term by outright denial.

bruthafez 8y ago
>Correcting the effects of slavery is much more important because its effects are much more pervasive. Uh, source? You're just making an arbitrary value judgement. Who are you to compare the effects of racism-against-blacks against the effects of racism-against-asians? You're making an arbitrary value judgement and then using that value judgement to justify systematic discriminations against Asians. You're also ignoring the fact that Asians were enslaved too in Japanese internment camps -- and what's more that slavery was more recent than African-American slavery. Weird to see you throw your own ethnicity under the bus in your haste to agree with the racist value judgements of elite bureaucrats tbh.
- siosonel 8y ago
  And someone who insists on absolute racial blindness is not making a value judgement? Isn't the issue mostly about which group to feel sorry for, why, and how? And you want a literary or published source for that empathy? Or are you saying that it is not self evident that a group, one that has been enslaved for hundreds of years, is not disproportionately poorer, grow up in single-parent households, or experience incarceration? Is that pattern even possible without a history of systematic, long-term oppression? The way I see it, one group is arguing from a place of historical hardship, and the other is arguing from a place of privilege. I don't mean someone growing up poor in Appalachia as being privileged simply because s/he is white; to me, that historical background definitely counts towards raising diversity. I'm just trying to put myself in other people's shoes. It's not necessarily about race or ethnicity or recentness of oppression, it's the compounded interest of those oppressions and inability to rise out of that enforced debt. Our institutions have to factor that historical indebtedness. Unless you really put yourself in another person's shoes, I honestly don't think this discussion will go anywhere. I mean, imagine growing up poor in a single household family, going to lowly ranked high schools, being disproportionately more likely to be stopped over and imprisoned for minor offenses, and getting questioned about academic abilities constantly.
  - bruthafez 8y ago
    For someone who talks so much about empathy you ironically completely fail to empathize with Asians. You're making an emotional argument not a logical or reasoned one so I can tell your mind is the type that isn't persuaded by facts but instead by emotional rhetoric. I bet you cry during political speeches. You're not worth my time to try to persuade because you just demonstrated a thought process based on anecdotes and evidence and empathy you extend to only one marginalized party instead of both. So instead of giving you the "imagine you're a Cambodian first generation immigrant who gets shat on daily by society AND STILL has a fraction of the chance to get into Harvard as Michael Jordans son" I'll just say: good day to you sir and good luck with your half assed thought process and your attempts to ride the moral high horse of empathy when ironically extending empathy to only one party. Your thought process is flawed, your reasoning is flawed, and you utterly lack the empathy and compassion you claim to exault. Peace out and good luck with your half assed anecdote-based reasoning -- meanwhile I'll be chilling here looking at the data, calling a spade a spade, and calling a racist admissions process a racist admissions process. You don't get virtue points for throwing your ethnicity under the bus when your ethnicity is actively being marginalized btw. Can't even believe how racist you are rly. Good day to u sir