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Are you sure Snowden wasn’t a patriot? I mean, even at the time it was sort of odd that Wikileaks didn’t contain a single leak from places like Russia, but Snow

Are you sure Snowden wasn’t a patriot? I mean, even at the time it was sort of odd that Wikileaks didn’t contain a single leak from places like Russia, but Snowden, seemed to have simple exposure in mind. The result of Snowden hurt America in domestic spying, and by giving up secrets, but as a Dane the NSA can still watch me take a dump through my own smartphone, no questions asked. So it’s not like it changed a whole lot.

avmich 8y ago
Interesting that Russia used to have their own Wikileaks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaltai_Boltai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaltai_Boltai
- varjag 8y ago
  No, Shaltai were doing their own work, publishing the teasers and auctioning the info to highest bidder.
ZephyrP 8y ago
Are there any credible cases of an individual coming forward with damaging state secrets or leaks that Wikileaks had refused to publish?
- Krasnol 8y ago
  Is there anything credible around WikiLeaks? Quick google: http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/17/wikileaks-turned-down-leaks-on-russian-government-during-u-s-presidential-campaign/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/17/wikileaks-turned-down-le...
  - travmatt 8y ago
    They’ve also refused to release documents linking Russian banking with Assad’s regime. This is of course in addition to the literal tv deal Assange has signed with Putin, if anyone here is of the belief getting paid by someone could be a conflict of interest.
unclebucknasty 8y ago
Yes, I am pretty sure he wasn't a patriot. You could say nothing is to be trusted, in which case notning means anything. So, there's no point in even thinking about it. Or, you can apply logic and decide what makes the most sense and, thus, whose story is most trustworthy. At the end of the day he stole documents and passed them to what is very reasonably claimed to be a cutout for Russian intelligence (logic would agree). You can look at the effect it had on the U.S. and who that advantaged. The claimed purpose was to blow the whistle on domestic spying (the presumed patriotism), however, the documents also contained information that damaged relations between the U.S. and one of its most important European and NATO allies (among other things). Again, who was keenly interested in embarrasing the U.S. and damaging such alliances? To top it off, he gains asylum in Russia? It's all just a bit too convenient. At the end of the day, you can appreciate what he did on the domestic spying front, but that doesn't absolve him. He provided aid and comfort to an adversary in ways that undermined his country. There's another word for that and it's the opposite of patriotism.
- eksemplar 8y ago
  Didn’t he pass the documents he stole to der spiegel, the guardian and the New York Times? You’d be hard pressed to find a less Russian recipient than those beacons of western democracy.
  - lern_too_spel 8y ago
    He first revealed documents to the South China Morning Post, in a failed attempt to gain asylum from the Communist Party. You're right that he didn't intend to become a Russian pawn — that was just a predictable result of his incompetence.
- Krasnol 8y ago
  He ended up in Russia on the way somewhere else because the US made it impossible for him to travel further.... Or is this part of the conspiracy too?
  - rando444 8y ago

avmich 8y ago

Interesting that Russia used to have their own Wikileaks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaltai_Boltai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaltai_Boltai

varjag 8y ago
No, Shaltai were doing their own work, publishing the teasers and auctioning the info to highest bidder.

ZephyrP 8y ago

Are there any credible cases of an individual coming forward with damaging state secrets or leaks that Wikileaks had refused to publish?

Krasnol 8y ago
Is there anything credible around WikiLeaks? Quick google: http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/17/wikileaks-turned-down-leaks-on-russian-government-during-u-s-presidential-campaign/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/17/wikileaks-turned-down-le...
- travmatt 8y ago
  They’ve also refused to release documents linking Russian banking with Assad’s regime. This is of course in addition to the literal tv deal Assange has signed with Putin, if anyone here is of the belief getting paid by someone could be a conflict of interest.

unclebucknasty 8y ago

Yes, I am pretty sure he wasn't a patriot. You could say nothing is to be trusted, in which case notning means anything. So, there's no point in even thinking about it. Or, you can apply logic and decide what makes the most sense and, thus, whose story is most trustworthy. At the end of the day he stole documents and passed them to what is very reasonably claimed to be a cutout for Russian intelligence (logic would agree). You can look at the effect it had on the U.S. and who that advantaged. The claimed purpose was to blow the whistle on domestic spying (the presumed patriotism), however, the documents also contained information that damaged relations between the U.S. and one of its most important European and NATO allies (among other things). Again, who was keenly interested in embarrasing the U.S. and damaging such alliances? To top it off, he gains asylum in Russia? It's all just a bit too convenient. At the end of the day, you can appreciate what he did on the domestic spying front, but that doesn't absolve him. He provided aid and comfort to an adversary in ways that undermined his country. There's another word for that and it's the opposite of patriotism.

eksemplar 8y ago
Didn’t he pass the documents he stole to der spiegel, the guardian and the New York Times? You’d be hard pressed to find a less Russian recipient than those beacons of western democracy.
- lern_too_spel 8y ago
  He first revealed documents to the South China Morning Post, in a failed attempt to gain asylum from the Communist Party. You're right that he didn't intend to become a Russian pawn — that was just a predictable result of his incompetence.
Krasnol 8y ago
He ended up in Russia on the way somewhere else because the US made it impossible for him to travel further.... Or is this part of the conspiracy too?
- rando444 8y ago