4 ms·

Why is race even a factor? Our society is moving backwards in regard to unification. If we stop using race or nationality as a factor for anything, we can get

by axaxs 8y ago

Why is race even a factor? Our society is moving backwards in regard to unification. If we stop using race or nationality as a factor for anything, we can get more fair results - as long as the selection process is thought out enough to not explicitly favor races over one another based on irrelevant factors. It seems like more than ever people are identifying themselves by race, and diversity is celebrated so granularly anymore than it creates 'us vs them' situations. I just don't understand the thought process. I want to work with the most qualified candidates and not celebrate or even think about their race, sexual status, heritage, etc.

dominotw 8y ago
> Why is race even a factor? This has been endlessly discussed to death. It is a factor because it is a factor in society(common eg: black names not getting callback for an interview). It is a factor because social inertia exists. Ignoring it and putting your head in the sand is not moving forward, places like harvard to want to take corrective measures to offset the inertia. Yes we would like to live in a race blind society but it cannot happen overnight.
- axaxs 8y ago
  Why is the name even a factor? Why can't it be an input of criteria, and handled by formulas? We're not in the 1920's with a guy with a fat cigar looking at each one individually, while burning and throwing away the ones that sound (irish/black/jewish/whatever).
  - smt88 8y ago
    Names absolutely matter. Many studies have been done where the same resume was submitted with different names. Why not Google it?
    - axaxs 8y ago
      I did not mean to imply that names do not matter wrt getting a callback at a job, of that I'm aware. I meant more as a 'why does it matter in qualifications.' i.e. in my formulaic paradise that is apparently too futuristic, name would be omitted as a factor. I don't think it's only race based, either. I'm sure an Alexander would get more callbacks than a Bubba. But people don't choose their name, such is life.
  - shipman05 8y ago
    You would think that sort of discrimination is a thing fo the past, yet.... http://www.chicagotribune.com/g00/business/ct-bias-hiring-0504-biz-20160503-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/g00/business/ct-bias-hiring-05...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - chmln 8y ago
    > Why is the name even a factor? Because many people still believe in stereotypes. But whether stereotypes have any truth to them is a different question entirely.
IvyAdmisions 8y ago
I was an ivy league admissions officer for a few years after college. Race is only a proxy for what really happens in these admissions processes. Imagine your job is to create the best possible 2000-student freshman class for Harvard from the 20,000 students who apply. You review the applications and notice to your horror that 600-1000 of them all have perfect or near perfect test scores, boring essays, so-so extracurriculars (Overwatch tournaments and robotics club doesn't cut it), play an instrument (well, but not remarkably), and want to study pre-med. Their grades and scores are STELLAR! But if you admit these students your campus is fucked. Half the freshman class can't do pre-med. Once the pre-med spots fill up what will the rest do? That seems like a very horrible situation to put students in. There's just not enough spots. What's going to happen to campus social life if half the class has a history of not being social at all? Who's going to produce art and go into politics? Who's going into investment banking to pull down big bonuses 10 years from now? So you work your way through them and try to take the very best of them. The rest of them you reject. They'll get into fine schools and be successful, there's just only so many slots of students like that in the class. This cohort of students happens to be massively asian. No one was out to discriminate against asian people when I worked where I worked, their applications were just very problematic at scale.
- axaxs 8y ago
  Honest question... what's the problem with Asian? I'm not Asian, but, if their applications were best, I wouldn't be offended if the entire student body was Asian.
  - IvyAdmisions 8y ago
    Like I said, it's not a race thing, its that a lot of the asian applicants all basically look the same on paper and have the same stated goals. Lots of white kids apply with the same "look" and also get rejected. Those students are not seen as bringing enough to the table.
    - truthisunpc 8y ago
      And this process just happens to create numbers that look exactly like a racial quota... yeah right. If you did blinded admissions the numbers wouldn't look the same at all.

by axaxs 8y ago

dominotw 8y ago

> Why is race even a factor? This has been endlessly discussed to death. It is a factor because it is a factor in society(common eg: black names not getting callback for an interview). It is a factor because social inertia exists. Ignoring it and putting your head in the sand is not moving forward, places like harvard to want to take corrective measures to offset the inertia. Yes we would like to live in a race blind society but it cannot happen overnight.

axaxs 8y ago
Why is the name even a factor? Why can't it be an input of criteria, and handled by formulas? We're not in the 1920's with a guy with a fat cigar looking at each one individually, while burning and throwing away the ones that sound (irish/black/jewish/whatever).
- smt88 8y ago
  Names absolutely matter. Many studies have been done where the same resume was submitted with different names. Why not Google it?
  - axaxs 8y ago
    I did not mean to imply that names do not matter wrt getting a callback at a job, of that I'm aware. I meant more as a 'why does it matter in qualifications.' i.e. in my formulaic paradise that is apparently too futuristic, name would be omitted as a factor. I don't think it's only race based, either. I'm sure an Alexander would get more callbacks than a Bubba. But people don't choose their name, such is life.
- shipman05 8y ago
  You would think that sort of discrimination is a thing fo the past, yet.... http://www.chicagotribune.com/g00/business/ct-bias-hiring-0504-biz-20160503-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/g00/business/ct-bias-hiring-05...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- chmln 8y ago
  > Why is the name even a factor? Because many people still believe in stereotypes. But whether stereotypes have any truth to them is a different question entirely.

IvyAdmisions 8y ago

I was an ivy league admissions officer for a few years after college. Race is only a proxy for what really happens in these admissions processes. Imagine your job is to create the best possible 2000-student freshman class for Harvard from the 20,000 students who apply. You review the applications and notice to your horror that 600-1000 of them all have perfect or near perfect test scores, boring essays, so-so extracurriculars (Overwatch tournaments and robotics club doesn't cut it), play an instrument (well, but not remarkably), and want to study pre-med. Their grades and scores are STELLAR! But if you admit these students your campus is fucked. Half the freshman class can't do pre-med. Once the pre-med spots fill up what will the rest do? That seems like a very horrible situation to put students in. There's just not enough spots. What's going to happen to campus social life if half the class has a history of not being social at all? Who's going to produce art and go into politics? Who's going into investment banking to pull down big bonuses 10 years from now? So you work your way through them and try to take the very best of them. The rest of them you reject. They'll get into fine schools and be successful, there's just only so many slots of students like that in the class. This cohort of students happens to be massively asian. No one was out to discriminate against asian people when I worked where I worked, their applications were just very problematic at scale.

axaxs 8y ago
Honest question... what's the problem with Asian? I'm not Asian, but, if their applications were best, I wouldn't be offended if the entire student body was Asian.
- IvyAdmisions 8y ago
  Like I said, it's not a race thing, its that a lot of the asian applicants all basically look the same on paper and have the same stated goals. Lots of white kids apply with the same "look" and also get rejected. Those students are not seen as bringing enough to the table.
  - truthisunpc 8y ago
    And this process just happens to create numbers that look exactly like a racial quota... yeah right. If you did blinded admissions the numbers wouldn't look the same at all.