7 ms·

Here's an idea, don't give impressionable young children unrestricted internet access if you're worried about this kind of stuff.

prepend 8y ago
My partner and I did this a few years ago. Our kids ranged from 5-10. It wasn’t that big of a deal but the social pressure has risen more and more each year due to advertising “watch on YouTube,” classmates having YouTube, elementary schools requiring YouTube projects, complaints that other parents allow and such. But the strangest thing is the reaction from friends who have kids the same age that we’re being prudes or technophiles. I shared a few of these articles with a friend whose 9 year old had a YouTube channel with a few cute videos but spends about 4-6 hours per day watching. They denied the author. Screen caps showed videos like the ones referenced in the right list and recommended and they still said it wasn’t a big deal. Really weird reaction from people I know well. Makes me wonder if I’m getting all Tipper Gore in my old age and this is the new form of heavy metal panic.
- mattsfrey 8y ago
  Yeah there is a generational gap that largely doesn't connect with me as a non-parent and somebody who didn't have internet until adolescence, and there was no youtube etc back then. I just will always generally scoff at calls for more censorship, "curation" etc on what is basically a large public medium of expression on account of "concern for the children", to me kids are the parents responsibility.
- s_kilk 8y ago
  > Youtube would load but only run videos and suggestions form a carefully curated set of publishers that respect the age. I suspect they're deep, deep down in a pit of denial because to admit that this is a problem would be an existential threat to them and their way of parenting.
- cthalupa 8y ago
  >Makes me wonder if I’m getting all Tipper Gore in my old age and this is the new form of heavy metal panic. In general, I don't think so. There's a pretty clear value proposition in things like heavy metal, D&D, and similar Tipper Gore-esque hysterias. There's really not much value in these things - algorithmically generated random content that is designed to trigger the same response over and over again. But maybe a little on the 9 year old. I think the biggest fear here is the impact it has on really young children, and kids that are likely to get sucked into this are probably closer to the <5-6 year old range. At 9 the kid should have a much better understanding of reality and how the world works, and should be less likely to get sucked into watching these for any great length of time. They're also less likely to come away from it with their view of reality being impacted - they can see and parse what actually goes on well enough to know this shit is super weird. I think for older children it's something to be aware of, and if you see it impacting their behavior, then certainly, take steps to handle it. And I imagine that some amount of older kids are going to react negatively to it as well.
- jstarfish 8y ago
  Let's not forget that television is a broadcast medium. It only goes one way. YouTube is bidirectional-- your kids can engage with their favorite YouTube stars, with or without your knowledge. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/bmvnmz/youtube-celebrities-uses-minecraft-to-prey-on-underage-fans https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/bmvnmz/youtube-ce...
- freehunter 8y ago
  >Makes me wonder if I’m getting all Tipper Gore in my old age Remember that brands were so insidious in their marketing to children during saturday morning cartoons in the 70s that the FCC mandated a more clear separation between what was a cartoon and what was a commercial. Cartoons are fine, advertising is fine, but blurring that line went too far and parents had a hard time saying no once their kids were sold something they thought was a cartoon. Different situation today, but same outcome. Parents have a hard time saying no to their kids, and then to justify their decision and make it seem okay, they shame you for not making the same choices they did, until eventually every kid is watching characters from My Little Pony kill each other and think it's a cartoon, and then the feds have to step in and regulate it. My wife and I have been putting off having kids because the peer pressure and judgement we see from parents is just so damn ridiculous.
nomocrypto 8y ago
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. It’s definitely possible to just not let your kids use YouTube unsupervised.. or curate content for them.
- mattsfrey 8y ago
  kids vs no kids is a massive divide in perspective and concerns
  - nomocrypto 8y ago
    Did I say I didn’t have kids?
- anigbrowl 8y ago
  Because it's a non-solution to a well-defined problem that just dumps the externality onto the consumer. Like telling people who are complaining about pollution that they shouldn't live near factories.
  - Avamander 8y ago
    Like telling people who are complaining about cavities to brush their teeth more like it.
    - mmt 8y ago
      I wish you had picked an example less fraught with flamewar potential, as this one has the sugar industry and water fluoridation firmly attached.
    - jacobolus 8y ago
      People complaining about cavities should stop eating so much sugar. Brushing their teeth is only a band-aid and doesn’t attack the core problem. And yeah, that means they should probably stop eating processed food with added sugar. Which means they should avoid most of the shelves in the supermarket. It’s a serious problem which goes far beyond personal responsibility. Our whole industrial food system is designed to deliver as much teeth-rotting food [as a bonus, also causes diabetes and heart disease and obesity] to as many consumers as cheaply as possible, while convincing those consumers that there’s nothing wrong. Not only that, we subsidize it heavily using our collective tax money.
draw_down 8y ago
In almost any other context this would be the general response. But as soon as kids are involved people change their tune real quick. It strikes me that many parents are probably flipping out about their kids seeing these videos but not porn or god knows what else they’re looking at. Maybe because there’s a logo to get angry at, and a big tech company with deep pockets to sue, if it comes down to that.
jenkstom 8y ago
That's easy enough. It's finding the right restrictions that are hard. That's the whole point of the article above, it's not a bad read.
quadrangle 8y ago
Yeah! And here's another idea: publicly complain about and discuss PUBLIC issues that are systematic and affect the whole society, not just you. Unless you want to keep your kids in totally isolated bubbles, they live in the world. If the rest of the neighborhood kids or classmates are watching certain things, then you can't keep your kids from exposure and social pressure etc. Issues are on a continuum from totally private, isolated concerns to broader social ones. Social problems require social solutions. But yes, impressionable young children shouldn't get unrestricted internet access. And also we can and should criticize anyone profiting off of systems that are causing harm.

prepend 8y ago

My partner and I did this a few years ago. Our kids ranged from 5-10. It wasn’t that big of a deal but the social pressure has risen more and more each year due to advertising “watch on YouTube,” classmates having YouTube, elementary schools requiring YouTube projects, complaints that other parents allow and such. But the strangest thing is the reaction from friends who have kids the same age that we’re being prudes or technophiles. I shared a few of these articles with a friend whose 9 year old had a YouTube channel with a few cute videos but spends about 4-6 hours per day watching. They denied the author. Screen caps showed videos like the ones referenced in the right list and recommended and they still said it wasn’t a big deal. Really weird reaction from people I know well. Makes me wonder if I’m getting all Tipper Gore in my old age and this is the new form of heavy metal panic.

mattsfrey 8y ago
Yeah there is a generational gap that largely doesn't connect with me as a non-parent and somebody who didn't have internet until adolescence, and there was no youtube etc back then. I just will always generally scoff at calls for more censorship, "curation" etc on what is basically a large public medium of expression on account of "concern for the children", to me kids are the parents responsibility.
s_kilk 8y ago
> Youtube would load but only run videos and suggestions form a carefully curated set of publishers that respect the age. I suspect they're deep, deep down in a pit of denial because to admit that this is a problem would be an existential threat to them and their way of parenting.
cthalupa 8y ago
>Makes me wonder if I’m getting all Tipper Gore in my old age and this is the new form of heavy metal panic. In general, I don't think so. There's a pretty clear value proposition in things like heavy metal, D&D, and similar Tipper Gore-esque hysterias. There's really not much value in these things - algorithmically generated random content that is designed to trigger the same response over and over again. But maybe a little on the 9 year old. I think the biggest fear here is the impact it has on really young children, and kids that are likely to get sucked into this are probably closer to the <5-6 year old range. At 9 the kid should have a much better understanding of reality and how the world works, and should be less likely to get sucked into watching these for any great length of time. They're also less likely to come away from it with their view of reality being impacted - they can see and parse what actually goes on well enough to know this shit is super weird. I think for older children it's something to be aware of, and if you see it impacting their behavior, then certainly, take steps to handle it. And I imagine that some amount of older kids are going to react negatively to it as well.
jstarfish 8y ago
Let's not forget that television is a broadcast medium. It only goes one way. YouTube is bidirectional-- your kids can engage with their favorite YouTube stars, with or without your knowledge. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/bmvnmz/youtube-celebrities-uses-minecraft-to-prey-on-underage-fans https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/bmvnmz/youtube-ce...
freehunter 8y ago
>Makes me wonder if I’m getting all Tipper Gore in my old age Remember that brands were so insidious in their marketing to children during saturday morning cartoons in the 70s that the FCC mandated a more clear separation between what was a cartoon and what was a commercial. Cartoons are fine, advertising is fine, but blurring that line went too far and parents had a hard time saying no once their kids were sold something they thought was a cartoon. Different situation today, but same outcome. Parents have a hard time saying no to their kids, and then to justify their decision and make it seem okay, they shame you for not making the same choices they did, until eventually every kid is watching characters from My Little Pony kill each other and think it's a cartoon, and then the feds have to step in and regulate it. My wife and I have been putting off having kids because the peer pressure and judgement we see from parents is just so damn ridiculous.

nomocrypto 8y ago

Not sure why you’re being downvoted. It’s definitely possible to just not let your kids use YouTube unsupervised.. or curate content for them.

mattsfrey 8y ago
kids vs no kids is a massive divide in perspective and concerns
- nomocrypto 8y ago
  Did I say I didn’t have kids?
anigbrowl 8y ago
Because it's a non-solution to a well-defined problem that just dumps the externality onto the consumer. Like telling people who are complaining about pollution that they shouldn't live near factories.
- Avamander 8y ago
  Like telling people who are complaining about cavities to brush their teeth more like it.
  - mmt 8y ago
    I wish you had picked an example less fraught with flamewar potential, as this one has the sugar industry and water fluoridation firmly attached.
  - jacobolus 8y ago
    People complaining about cavities should stop eating so much sugar. Brushing their teeth is only a band-aid and doesn’t attack the core problem. And yeah, that means they should probably stop eating processed food with added sugar. Which means they should avoid most of the shelves in the supermarket. It’s a serious problem which goes far beyond personal responsibility. Our whole industrial food system is designed to deliver as much teeth-rotting food [as a bonus, also causes diabetes and heart disease and obesity] to as many consumers as cheaply as possible, while convincing those consumers that there’s nothing wrong. Not only that, we subsidize it heavily using our collective tax money.

draw_down 8y ago

In almost any other context this would be the general response. But as soon as kids are involved people change their tune real quick. It strikes me that many parents are probably flipping out about their kids seeing these videos but not porn or god knows what else they’re looking at. Maybe because there’s a logo to get angry at, and a big tech company with deep pockets to sue, if it comes down to that.

jenkstom 8y ago

That's easy enough. It's finding the right restrictions that are hard. That's the whole point of the article above, it's not a bad read.

quadrangle 8y ago

Yeah! And here's another idea: publicly complain about and discuss PUBLIC issues that are systematic and affect the whole society, not just you. Unless you want to keep your kids in totally isolated bubbles, they live in the world. If the rest of the neighborhood kids or classmates are watching certain things, then you can't keep your kids from exposure and social pressure etc. Issues are on a continuum from totally private, isolated concerns to broader social ones. Social problems require social solutions. But yes, impressionable young children shouldn't get unrestricted internet access. And also we can and should criticize anyone profiting off of systems that are causing harm.