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I'm a late-career software developer. 30+ years in the trenches doing this... I've done "meaningful" work at companies that treated my like a consumable resou

by loph 8y ago

I'm a late-career software developer. 30+ years in the trenches doing this... I've done "meaningful" work at companies that treated my like a consumable resource, and less meaningful work at companies that treated me like a person. I prefer the latter. My suggestion is don't jump at the first interesting work, look more for culture and career opportunity. You can find both, those jobs are not quite as rare as unicorns. Good luck in your search.

finaliteration 8y ago
I agree. I’ve also had both, and hands down I’d take the less than “meaningful” job where I’m treated like a human being. I’m extremely fortunate as the job I hold right now is a decent balance. It’s not totally meaningless and I think we are helping people in a lot of ways but I don’t think we’re saving the world. However I do work with a great team and everyone treats each other with respect and the company leadership genuinely cares about retaining their employees and treating them well.
- lphnull 8y ago
  I must be rare because I wouldn't mind being treated as less than human. McDonald's was one of my first jobs- and one thing I learned there was that I can chose one of two things: (1)be upset that incompetent bosses are treating me like shit and move on to another job without having learned anything, or (2)I can simply not care about Michael Scott-type managers and just focus, like a robot, on getting really good at my job. Then, in the future, I can move up and become one of the best managers anyone has ever seen thanks to knowing what not to do. In my opinion, people care too much about work politics. Yes people suck, but sucky people will be everywhere. Learning to cope with difficult people is a skill that everybody absolutely needs to learn at some point in their lives.
  - finaliteration 8y ago
    > Yes people suck, but sucky people will be everywhere. Learning to cope with difficult people is a skill that everybody absolutely needs to learn at some point in their lives. I agree with that. And on the point of managers: I’ve had my fair share of shitty/toxic managers. So I guess I spent a decent amount of time being treated that way and eventually it wears thin and you start trying to look for a more humane workplace rather than chasing money or “impact”.
pards 8y ago
This! The people you work with matter most, above all else.
- zapperdapper 8y ago
  Does it though? I've worked with a really fantastic team and manager before, but the utter meaningless of the work, day after day, got to me in the end and I pulled the pin on it.
joeax 8y ago
I'm also a late-career dev like the OP and agree with everything said. I'm going to add that if you want meaningful work, work on a side project. Even if it doesn't pan out, it's a great learning experience and could open doors and ignite conversations with people leading to much better and fascinating opportunities.
whorleater 8y ago
I work at a midstage well funded startup where I'm paid well, treated nicely by my coworkers, have a great work life balance, and a clear career path for advancement. But we do the typical tech wankery bullshit, and the banality of it eats away at you. Maybe the goal is to get accustomed to this and accept that my job is better than 99% of the world, but christ if I'm going to spend the next 20-30 years of my life doing this and filling it with hobbies that also don't have meaningful impact, why even bother.
- finaliteration 8y ago
  > if I'm going to spend the next 20-30 years of my life doing this and filling it with hobbies that also don't have meaningful impact, why even bother. I understand those thoughts and feelings because I have them myself. That being said, why do you feel like your hobbies also have to be meaningless or have no impact? Volunteering can be a hobby. So can doing something like coaching a kids’ sports team (if you like kids) or mentoring someone or something else along those lines. For me, my job is a way to help my family and other people who are way less fortunate than I am. Also, and I know this is a “typical” response around here: Have you considered the idea that you may be suffering from depression? Most of the time when the, “why does this shit even matter” feelings hit me it’s because I’m hitting the depression stage of manic depression/bipolar.
  - whorleater 8y ago
    >Volunteering can be a hobby. So can doing something like coaching a kids’ sports team I do volunteer, I'm active in tutoring underprivileged kids for their SAT/ACT's, and otherwise help immigrants fill out their N-100 forms. I take Arabic classes in my spare time, and I fill my free time with various other hobbies (rock climbing, hiking, etc). And that's great that I have an impact on a local community, but in the end, why does it matter? Any bozo with two brain cells to rub together can have an impact on their local community. Aren't all these hobbies just escapism from the fact that my life is centered around this 40 hours a week that I spend debugging gevent or rewriting yet another RPC service? To me, the acceptance of the reality of "it's extremely unlikely that I'll anything that has a meaningful impact on a large group of people" is the saddest thing of all.
samnwa 8y ago
This is an interesting dichotomy to present (meaningful versus friendly work culture). I imagine there are also people who prefer the former. I am not judging at all -- find the dichotomy pretty accurate.

by loph 8y ago

finaliteration 8y ago

I agree. I’ve also had both, and hands down I’d take the less than “meaningful” job where I’m treated like a human being. I’m extremely fortunate as the job I hold right now is a decent balance. It’s not totally meaningless and I think we are helping people in a lot of ways but I don’t think we’re saving the world. However I do work with a great team and everyone treats each other with respect and the company leadership genuinely cares about retaining their employees and treating them well.

lphnull 8y ago
I must be rare because I wouldn't mind being treated as less than human. McDonald's was one of my first jobs- and one thing I learned there was that I can chose one of two things: (1)be upset that incompetent bosses are treating me like shit and move on to another job without having learned anything, or (2)I can simply not care about Michael Scott-type managers and just focus, like a robot, on getting really good at my job. Then, in the future, I can move up and become one of the best managers anyone has ever seen thanks to knowing what not to do. In my opinion, people care too much about work politics. Yes people suck, but sucky people will be everywhere. Learning to cope with difficult people is a skill that everybody absolutely needs to learn at some point in their lives.
- finaliteration 8y ago
  > Yes people suck, but sucky people will be everywhere. Learning to cope with difficult people is a skill that everybody absolutely needs to learn at some point in their lives. I agree with that. And on the point of managers: I’ve had my fair share of shitty/toxic managers. So I guess I spent a decent amount of time being treated that way and eventually it wears thin and you start trying to look for a more humane workplace rather than chasing money or “impact”.

pards 8y ago

This! The people you work with matter most, above all else.

zapperdapper 8y ago
Does it though? I've worked with a really fantastic team and manager before, but the utter meaningless of the work, day after day, got to me in the end and I pulled the pin on it.

joeax 8y ago

I'm also a late-career dev like the OP and agree with everything said. I'm going to add that if you want meaningful work, work on a side project. Even if it doesn't pan out, it's a great learning experience and could open doors and ignite conversations with people leading to much better and fascinating opportunities.

whorleater 8y ago

I work at a midstage well funded startup where I'm paid well, treated nicely by my coworkers, have a great work life balance, and a clear career path for advancement. But we do the typical tech wankery bullshit, and the banality of it eats away at you. Maybe the goal is to get accustomed to this and accept that my job is better than 99% of the world, but christ if I'm going to spend the next 20-30 years of my life doing this and filling it with hobbies that also don't have meaningful impact, why even bother.

finaliteration 8y ago
> if I'm going to spend the next 20-30 years of my life doing this and filling it with hobbies that also don't have meaningful impact, why even bother. I understand those thoughts and feelings because I have them myself. That being said, why do you feel like your hobbies also have to be meaningless or have no impact? Volunteering can be a hobby. So can doing something like coaching a kids’ sports team (if you like kids) or mentoring someone or something else along those lines. For me, my job is a way to help my family and other people who are way less fortunate than I am. Also, and I know this is a “typical” response around here: Have you considered the idea that you may be suffering from depression? Most of the time when the, “why does this shit even matter” feelings hit me it’s because I’m hitting the depression stage of manic depression/bipolar.
- whorleater 8y ago
  >Volunteering can be a hobby. So can doing something like coaching a kids’ sports team I do volunteer, I'm active in tutoring underprivileged kids for their SAT/ACT's, and otherwise help immigrants fill out their N-100 forms. I take Arabic classes in my spare time, and I fill my free time with various other hobbies (rock climbing, hiking, etc). And that's great that I have an impact on a local community, but in the end, why does it matter? Any bozo with two brain cells to rub together can have an impact on their local community. Aren't all these hobbies just escapism from the fact that my life is centered around this 40 hours a week that I spend debugging gevent or rewriting yet another RPC service? To me, the acceptance of the reality of "it's extremely unlikely that I'll anything that has a meaningful impact on a large group of people" is the saddest thing of all.

samnwa 8y ago

This is an interesting dichotomy to present (meaningful versus friendly work culture). I imagine there are also people who prefer the former. I am not judging at all -- find the dichotomy pretty accurate.