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I got my devs to embrace GCP, AWS, ansible, terraform, docker, k8s, devops and SRE before most of the admins. Yes, devs are often enthusiastic because they thi

by gaius 8y ago

I got my devs to embrace GCP, AWS, ansible, terraform, docker, k8s, devops and SRE before most of the admins. Yes, devs are often enthusiastic because they think they can ditch those boring old operations people who always stop them having fun. Next thing they know they're on call 24/7 and don't get to write application code anymore, just operations stuff... The truth is the need for ops people doesn't evaporate when you go cloud, be wary of anyone who says it does. This is the same dynamic that played out with MongoDB.

dev_dull 8y ago
The new reality is that the barriers are gone. Ops must dev, dev must ops. Who can get away with a job that just requires them to open a Java IDE? Those jobs are just as extinct as a pure ops role.
- gaius 8y ago
  With MongoDB the devs said "we don't need a DBA anymore". But what they failed to understand was that the DBA was not the person who knew all the database command syntax, but rather the person who was responsible for the data - its availability, security, and so on. And getting rid of that person didn't get rid of the reason the job existed. I dare say that came as a bit of a shock. Well, serves them right for stabbing a fellow Worker in the back! And it is playing out exactly the same way in Cloud. All the responsibilities still exist, apart from the most basic ones such as "sweep the floor of the datacentre". Now who's going to take them?
mmt 8y ago
> Yes, devs are often enthusiastic because they think they can ditch those boring old operations people who always stop them having fun. I think it's more subtle than that. (Also, I think the parent was trolling, but you knew that). It's that there's a certain class of programmers (and/or managers with exclusively programming backgrounds) that truly believe all (technology) problems can be solved with software. If one assumes that belief, then the hostility to someone who believes differently is arguably inevitable. It also explains why, to some, "Devops" is code for "wannabe dev" or some other coding-first role. >Next thing they know they're on call 24/7 and don't get to write application code anymore, just operations stuff... >The truth is the need for ops people doesn't evaporate when you go cloud That explains the dozens of seemingly-identical job postings from tech startups for "Devops" engineers with both experience in the above latest tools and operational experience. Fortunately, they only ask for 1-3 years, which is realistic. > This is the same dynamic that played out with MongoDB. Ultimately, though, did it matter? If we sometimes got fail whales instead of 140 characters, we still didn't get flying cars. Alternatively, for whatever reason (freely flowing VC? low interest rates?), there's too little incentive for low cost or high reliability ops right now.

by gaius 8y ago

dev_dull 8y ago

The new reality is that the barriers are gone. Ops must dev, dev must ops. Who can get away with a job that just requires them to open a Java IDE? Those jobs are just as extinct as a pure ops role.

gaius 8y ago
With MongoDB the devs said "we don't need a DBA anymore". But what they failed to understand was that the DBA was not the person who knew all the database command syntax, but rather the person who was responsible for the data - its availability, security, and so on. And getting rid of that person didn't get rid of the reason the job existed. I dare say that came as a bit of a shock. Well, serves them right for stabbing a fellow Worker in the back! And it is playing out exactly the same way in Cloud. All the responsibilities still exist, apart from the most basic ones such as "sweep the floor of the datacentre". Now who's going to take them?

mmt 8y ago

> Yes, devs are often enthusiastic because they think they can ditch those boring old operations people who always stop them having fun. I think it's more subtle than that. (Also, I think the parent was trolling, but you knew that). It's that there's a certain class of programmers (and/or managers with exclusively programming backgrounds) that truly believe all (technology) problems can be solved with software. If one assumes that belief, then the hostility to someone who believes differently is arguably inevitable. It also explains why, to some, "Devops" is code for "wannabe dev" or some other coding-first role. >Next thing they know they're on call 24/7 and don't get to write application code anymore, just operations stuff... >The truth is the need for ops people doesn't evaporate when you go cloud That explains the dozens of seemingly-identical job postings from tech startups for "Devops" engineers with both experience in the above latest tools and operational experience. Fortunately, they only ask for 1-3 years, which is realistic. > This is the same dynamic that played out with MongoDB. Ultimately, though, did it matter? If we sometimes got fail whales instead of 140 characters, we still didn't get flying cars. Alternatively, for whatever reason (freely flowing VC? low interest rates?), there's too little incentive for low cost or high reliability ops right now.