3 ms·

Electrek has a longer video in their article: https://electrek.co/2018/06/16/tesla-model-s-battery-fire-investigating/ https://electrek.co/2018/06/16/tesla-mode

by _ph_ 8y ago

Electrek has a longer video in their article: https://electrek.co/2018/06/16/tesla-model-s-battery-fire-investigating/ https://electrek.co/2018/06/16/tesla-model-s-battery-fire-in... The fire looks like some high pressure gas burning to me, with the flames violently exiting to the left. If you watch the longer video, this is mostly over by the time the firefighters arrive. This could point to the fire being not in the battery, but the AC unit, which is in the front of the vehicle. Modern AC units contain flammable chemicals and when operating would be pressurized.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dogma1138 8y ago
Automotive AC units use HCFC/HFC gases not HC, HCFC/HFC are not flammable. If Tesla used R-290 or R-600 (propane and iso-butane) refrigerants in their AC they are well idiots and there is little chance that this would’ve passed regulation. The video you linked looks just like batery venting. https://youtu.be/WnZuMfq6kec https://youtu.be/WnZuMfq6kec
- _ph_ 8y ago
  At least in Europe, the traditional refrigerants have been banned because of their impact on the ozone layer, and currently some car manufacturers are using R123yf, which is flammeable. I don't know what Tesla uses.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    R1234yf is an HFO and it isn’t practically flammable it’s classified as a mild flammable material and even that’s a stretch. >”Although the product is classified slightly flammable by ASHRAE, several years of testing by SAE proved that the product could not be ignited under conditions normally experienced by a vehicle. In addition several independent authorities evaluated the safety of the product in vehicles and some of them concluded that it was as safe to use as R-134a...” As far as Europe goes “traditional” referigerants are not banned they can be restricted depending on the industry and usecase. HFOs are used by a few car manufacturers and ironically this isn’t even an EU thing the US started using it first iirc GM was the first as these HFOs are produced by Honeywell. HFC and HCFC are commonly used in Europe. Also it’s important to note that Daimler and BMW specifically stated that they will not use R1234 and Daimler even recalled the Benz’s that used it. They claimed it’s unsafe and flammable but the actual reason was most likely the cost that Honeywell and DuPont enforced on manufacturers. IIRC not only was that R1234 was more expensive Honeywell and DuPont also had patents issued on the evaporators that need to be used in conjunction with this refrigerant.
Bigsy 8y ago
It looks exactly like the battery venting.
rasz 8y ago
nah, this is how Lithium ion cells fail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J-h6fC1GrU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J-h6fC1GrU 2 and 6:50 minute mark for quite dramatic demonstrations
zormino 8y ago
A battery fire should have been detected by the BMS. It would be sampling an array of temperature sensors in the battery pack multiple times per second, and any temperature out of range events would be captured. This is either a huge failure of the BMS, which should have detected the fire and triggered a derating of the motor and disconnetion of the battery from the powertrain (which didn't happen as the driver was flagged to pull over by pedestrians), or this wasn't a battery fire.

by _ph_ 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

dogma1138 8y ago

Automotive AC units use HCFC/HFC gases not HC, HCFC/HFC are not flammable. If Tesla used R-290 or R-600 (propane and iso-butane) refrigerants in their AC they are well idiots and there is little chance that this would’ve passed regulation. The video you linked looks just like batery venting. https://youtu.be/WnZuMfq6kec https://youtu.be/WnZuMfq6kec

_ph_ 8y ago
At least in Europe, the traditional refrigerants have been banned because of their impact on the ozone layer, and currently some car manufacturers are using R123yf, which is flammeable. I don't know what Tesla uses.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  R1234yf is an HFO and it isn’t practically flammable it’s classified as a mild flammable material and even that’s a stretch. >”Although the product is classified slightly flammable by ASHRAE, several years of testing by SAE proved that the product could not be ignited under conditions normally experienced by a vehicle. In addition several independent authorities evaluated the safety of the product in vehicles and some of them concluded that it was as safe to use as R-134a...” As far as Europe goes “traditional” referigerants are not banned they can be restricted depending on the industry and usecase. HFOs are used by a few car manufacturers and ironically this isn’t even an EU thing the US started using it first iirc GM was the first as these HFOs are produced by Honeywell. HFC and HCFC are commonly used in Europe. Also it’s important to note that Daimler and BMW specifically stated that they will not use R1234 and Daimler even recalled the Benz’s that used it. They claimed it’s unsafe and flammable but the actual reason was most likely the cost that Honeywell and DuPont enforced on manufacturers. IIRC not only was that R1234 was more expensive Honeywell and DuPont also had patents issued on the evaporators that need to be used in conjunction with this refrigerant.

Bigsy 8y ago

It looks exactly like the battery venting.

rasz 8y ago

nah, this is how Lithium ion cells fail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J-h6fC1GrU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J-h6fC1GrU 2 and 6:50 minute mark for quite dramatic demonstrations

zormino 8y ago

A battery fire should have been detected by the BMS. It would be sampling an array of temperature sensors in the battery pack multiple times per second, and any temperature out of range events would be captured. This is either a huge failure of the BMS, which should have detected the fire and triggered a derating of the motor and disconnetion of the battery from the powertrain (which didn't happen as the driver was flagged to pull over by pedestrians), or this wasn't a battery fire.