4 ms·

Curious if anyone here has seen success with the first step, "Get Approval From Leadership". I tend to favor "ask for forgiveness, not permission". Nobody is mo

Curious if anyone here has seen success with the first step, "Get Approval From Leadership". I tend to favor "ask for forgiveness, not permission". Nobody is more resistant to change than middle management, so I tend to jump straight to small-scale adoption and coalition building.

lgleason 8y ago
agreed!
mieseratte 8y ago
Depends on how they're defining leadership in TFA, as it is vaguely written such that it could mean managers or it could mean technical-leaders, e.g. a team lead / tech lead type. If I have an idea that I know is correct / am sure of, I would broach it with the concerned folks. If I couldn't get them onboard, and was still sure I was right, I would discuss it with the senior engineers to get the feedback. If, at that point, I was still sure the idea was right I would try to once again try to convince the team of the merits, with the available appeal to authority. At that point you either win, give up, or try to convince management to enforce the idea.
BSVino 8y ago
Hello. Article author here. You can do this and it might be the appropriate approach in some situations, but you run the risk of degrading your reputation with management. Putting aside the personal risk, I tend to think of maintaining your reputation with your teammates as more important in the long run than accomplishing something or being right about any particular issue, since it preserves your ability to persuade them in the future. Also I've found that if management is resistant to change they usually have good reasons, even if sometimes they can't or won't share them, so circumventing them can sometimes be counter-productive. Usually better to just be on the up-and-up.
- phkahler 8y ago
  Perhaps it's a subtle point but how do you contrast your comment with this part of the article: >> When I explain this process to junior team members, an objection is often, "I don't feel like I have the authority to do this. This is a job for our leadership." They feel that a person must be empowered to make a change before they can venture to do so. That's not true. Team members become senior not because they are deemed senior and granted senior responsibilities, but rather because they show that they're capable of effectively taking and addressing senior responsibilities.
  - BSVino 8y ago
    You make a good point. The junior team members I'm thinking about felt they didn't have the authority and so didn't approach leadership with a plan. I'm not saying they should assume responsibilities without direction of leadership, but rather that they can follow step 1 in the article regardless of their level in the organization. Even a senior person must follow the direction of leadership, the difference is that the senior person knows that they can approach leadership with a plan.

lgleason 8y ago

agreed!

mieseratte 8y ago

Depends on how they're defining leadership in TFA, as it is vaguely written such that it could mean managers or it could mean technical-leaders, e.g. a team lead / tech lead type. If I have an idea that I know is correct / am sure of, I would broach it with the concerned folks. If I couldn't get them onboard, and was still sure I was right, I would discuss it with the senior engineers to get the feedback. If, at that point, I was still sure the idea was right I would try to once again try to convince the team of the merits, with the available appeal to authority. At that point you either win, give up, or try to convince management to enforce the idea.

BSVino 8y ago

Hello. Article author here. You can do this and it might be the appropriate approach in some situations, but you run the risk of degrading your reputation with management. Putting aside the personal risk, I tend to think of maintaining your reputation with your teammates as more important in the long run than accomplishing something or being right about any particular issue, since it preserves your ability to persuade them in the future. Also I've found that if management is resistant to change they usually have good reasons, even if sometimes they can't or won't share them, so circumventing them can sometimes be counter-productive. Usually better to just be on the up-and-up.

phkahler 8y ago
Perhaps it's a subtle point but how do you contrast your comment with this part of the article: >> When I explain this process to junior team members, an objection is often, "I don't feel like I have the authority to do this. This is a job for our leadership." They feel that a person must be empowered to make a change before they can venture to do so. That's not true. Team members become senior not because they are deemed senior and granted senior responsibilities, but rather because they show that they're capable of effectively taking and addressing senior responsibilities.
- BSVino 8y ago
  You make a good point. The junior team members I'm thinking about felt they didn't have the authority and so didn't approach leadership with a plan. I'm not saying they should assume responsibilities without direction of leadership, but rather that they can follow step 1 in the article regardless of their level in the organization. Even a senior person must follow the direction of leadership, the difference is that the senior person knows that they can approach leadership with a plan.