11 ms·

While I agree with you about the inconvenience of most residential shipping services, I think people not interacting directly with the industry tend to forget h

by quasse 8y ago

While I agree with you about the inconvenience of most residential shipping services, I think people not interacting directly with the industry tend to forget how absolutely huge the business-to-business market still is for UPS. I expect the margins are quite a bit larger for them there as well. Working in the engineering field, people send things at shipping prices of $50-$200 plus per package on the daily. The only thing that matters is that it arrives where it's needed fast. I can't say for sure, but I would expect that UPS is still more inclined to cater to the relatively price insensitive business customer over the Amazon Prime residential customer.

icelancer 8y ago
>> While I agree with you about the inconvenience of most residential shipping services, I think people not interacting directly with the industry tend to forget how absolutely huge the business-to-business market still is for UPS. I expect the margins are quite a bit larger for them there as well. Definitely. The consumer side is less relevant compared to the business side. We spend tons of money on UPS' insurance products that they must kill us on, but we have no choice, as we send $10k+ packages regularly. USPS' insurance is a complete joke but UPS/FedEx honor theirs pretty regularly, even if there are some hoops to jump.
- nikofeyn 8y ago
  as a consumer, i can’t stand the insurance policies of shipping companies. you pay them to ship something, and then you have to pay them more to make sure they actually ship it properly. it’s insane to me. and UPS has gotten exceedingly picky. you cannot insure anything unless you let them pack it. i once tried to insure shipping a synth that i put back into the manufacturer’s own original box with the original packing material. this was then going to be out into a UPS box. the guy wouldn’t insure it because they didn’t pack it. he explained they would have to ship the synth in their own packing and then ship the box separately in the same box. that is just one insane example, but now, it can cost like $70-100 just to ship a normal sized, insured package with them. one time with the USPS, the mail person folded a large hardcover book in half like a taco to fit it into a PO box. when i called the local post office to complain to a manager, she explained that the shipper didn’t purchase insurance and so they couldn’t do anything. when i explained that was for accidents and not intentional destruction of packages she basically yelled at me and that was that. no follow up, no nothing. these shipping companies hide behind these insurance policies because they basically can do whatever they want with your package and it’s the only little power you have. and it’s obviously something they make a lot of money off of.
  - sjg007 8y ago
    You need to ask for the postmaster general and if that doesn't work escalate up the chain. I've had a few issues with my mail delivery and after one call it was sorted.
    - notatoad 8y ago
      Escalate up from the postmaster general? To who, the president?
      - sjg007 8y ago
        Sorry I meant your local postmaster. Then up from there.
    - seanp2k2 8y ago
      Had a problem at a previous apartment with people breaking into the physical mailbox and stealing credit cards, then activating and using them for a day before I caught it. Happened a few times to my and a few times to another resident that I talked to about it. Apartment complex is huge (~35 buildings with ~30 units per building) and owned by an even bigger company with dozens of properties around the country. Got the actual mail fraud investigator people to come out and yell at the apartment management about having an improperly-secured mailbox after my talking to them had no effect. The mailboxes were wall-mount indoor units where one big swing-open panel gave access to ~40 mailboxes; the locking mechanism was just a padlock and a slider bar. The slider bar was mounted to drywall with drywall anchors, so to break in, they used a claw hammer or crowbar to just rip the locking mechanism out of the wall, left the door open, threw ripped-open mail everywhere... the apartment maintenance people just filled the holes with drywall filler, then put the drywall anchors back into that. You could pull it out with your fingers, and it looks like that was exactly what happened on subsequent thefts. Anyway, the apartment management people basically told the USPS inspectors “new mailboxes cost money” and that was that. I moved out a few months later and mentioned that this incident was partially the cause. USPS recommended that I use a post office box to ensure that my mail wouldn’t get stolen, which I understand, but at the same time is pretty ridiculous IMO. TL;DR USPS was very responsive and sympathetic to my situation, but ultimately couldn’t actually make my huge apartment company secure their mailboxes.
greggman 8y ago
Proof it can be done better, Japan. It's common to be able to choose the day and the delivery time. 8am-12pm, 2pm-4pm, 4pm-6pm, 6pm-8pm, 7pm-9pm and I've never had them be 1 minute outside their designated schedule. And, prices are cheap. Price to send a large package from Tokyo to Osaka (think SF to LA) (larger than the USPS would even allow), $20
- justinator 8y ago
  How is this accomplished? Is it because of Tokyo's railway system? Another example of cheap and fast delivery is in New Zealand, which is very roughly similar in size as Japan (and an island!) But infrastructure there is much, much, simpler.
  - patio11 8y ago
    Between the DCs they use 18 wheelers; they’re then taken on a smaller truck to a local site and take to the end user by a truck or handcart. It’s partially because of different relative distribution of supply and demand and partially because infrastructural technology is just better here. (Random customer visible example: high-end apartments in Tokyo generally have an on-site package locker so that companies can drop off packages even when the recipient isn’t home, which is a major convenience and avoids unnecessary redeliveries.)
    - pfranz 8y ago
      I was just staying in a place in the US that had a package room with per-parcel codes for access. It was kind of a terrible experience. Just because you had the address and unit number on there, you needed to be "in the system" so they could email/txt you an access code. I had a box of flowers for Mother's day that didn't show up until a week later. When everything did work as expected, it was still very problematic. Any "delivery" alerts were meaningless because it may not have been registered to the package room yet. The package room was a mess and was often difficult to find your packages--then you had to carry them all back to your unit. I'm not sure if they bundled access codes (i.e. 5 packages arrive but they only register the first and give you one code), but this seemed to happen to me. If you did forget a package they expired unused codes after you access. So if you forgot or couldn't carry everything you can no longer access the room. I'm sure this simplifies things for the carrier, but I wouldn't be surprised if missing packages increased sharply when these were introduced. I also got the feeling packages were delivered to the front office before this system was in place (which would be the same, or perhaps, less work for the carriers). Which negates a lot of the issues mentioned above, but does mean you can only pick up your packages during office hours. I haven't experienced Japanese package delivery, but when I first heard about it a few years ago I got super envious.
richardw 8y ago
Googled, am surprised: "FedEx recently stated that only about 3% of its revenues are derived from Amazon, while an estimated 7% of UPS’s revenues come from Amazon." https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/11/22/why-fedex-and-ups-dont-need-to-worry-about-amazon/amp/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/11/22/wh...
- barkingcat 8y ago
  Not surprised. Amazon has their "free shipping" program which puts enormous downward pressure on shipping pricing all the way back to the carriers. Non-Amazon traffic, for example, business to business traffic, might not be growing as fast, but Fedex/UPS can charge $50+ or even $200+ for a single shipment - that's more than probably the average lifetime shipping profit made from a single Amazon prime user - in one single business-to-business shipment! A regular North American business would probably have anywhere from 10 to 100 packages a day sent out via courier/UPS/Fedex. No problem seeing where the profits come from. Volume does not mean profit, especially when the volume is trying to push for eliminating UPS and FedEx's profits (via offering free shipping)

by quasse 8y ago

icelancer 8y ago

>> While I agree with you about the inconvenience of most residential shipping services, I think people not interacting directly with the industry tend to forget how absolutely huge the business-to-business market still is for UPS. I expect the margins are quite a bit larger for them there as well. Definitely. The consumer side is less relevant compared to the business side. We spend tons of money on UPS' insurance products that they must kill us on, but we have no choice, as we send $10k+ packages regularly. USPS' insurance is a complete joke but UPS/FedEx honor theirs pretty regularly, even if there are some hoops to jump.

nikofeyn 8y ago
as a consumer, i can’t stand the insurance policies of shipping companies. you pay them to ship something, and then you have to pay them more to make sure they actually ship it properly. it’s insane to me. and UPS has gotten exceedingly picky. you cannot insure anything unless you let them pack it. i once tried to insure shipping a synth that i put back into the manufacturer’s own original box with the original packing material. this was then going to be out into a UPS box. the guy wouldn’t insure it because they didn’t pack it. he explained they would have to ship the synth in their own packing and then ship the box separately in the same box. that is just one insane example, but now, it can cost like $70-100 just to ship a normal sized, insured package with them. one time with the USPS, the mail person folded a large hardcover book in half like a taco to fit it into a PO box. when i called the local post office to complain to a manager, she explained that the shipper didn’t purchase insurance and so they couldn’t do anything. when i explained that was for accidents and not intentional destruction of packages she basically yelled at me and that was that. no follow up, no nothing. these shipping companies hide behind these insurance policies because they basically can do whatever they want with your package and it’s the only little power you have. and it’s obviously something they make a lot of money off of.
- sjg007 8y ago
  You need to ask for the postmaster general and if that doesn't work escalate up the chain. I've had a few issues with my mail delivery and after one call it was sorted.
  - notatoad 8y ago
    Escalate up from the postmaster general? To who, the president?
    - sjg007 8y ago
      Sorry I meant your local postmaster. Then up from there.
  - seanp2k2 8y ago
    Had a problem at a previous apartment with people breaking into the physical mailbox and stealing credit cards, then activating and using them for a day before I caught it. Happened a few times to my and a few times to another resident that I talked to about it. Apartment complex is huge (~35 buildings with ~30 units per building) and owned by an even bigger company with dozens of properties around the country. Got the actual mail fraud investigator people to come out and yell at the apartment management about having an improperly-secured mailbox after my talking to them had no effect. The mailboxes were wall-mount indoor units where one big swing-open panel gave access to ~40 mailboxes; the locking mechanism was just a padlock and a slider bar. The slider bar was mounted to drywall with drywall anchors, so to break in, they used a claw hammer or crowbar to just rip the locking mechanism out of the wall, left the door open, threw ripped-open mail everywhere... the apartment maintenance people just filled the holes with drywall filler, then put the drywall anchors back into that. You could pull it out with your fingers, and it looks like that was exactly what happened on subsequent thefts. Anyway, the apartment management people basically told the USPS inspectors “new mailboxes cost money” and that was that. I moved out a few months later and mentioned that this incident was partially the cause. USPS recommended that I use a post office box to ensure that my mail wouldn’t get stolen, which I understand, but at the same time is pretty ridiculous IMO. TL;DR USPS was very responsive and sympathetic to my situation, but ultimately couldn’t actually make my huge apartment company secure their mailboxes.

greggman 8y ago

Proof it can be done better, Japan. It's common to be able to choose the day and the delivery time. 8am-12pm, 2pm-4pm, 4pm-6pm, 6pm-8pm, 7pm-9pm and I've never had them be 1 minute outside their designated schedule. And, prices are cheap. Price to send a large package from Tokyo to Osaka (think SF to LA) (larger than the USPS would even allow), $20

justinator 8y ago
How is this accomplished? Is it because of Tokyo's railway system? Another example of cheap and fast delivery is in New Zealand, which is very roughly similar in size as Japan (and an island!) But infrastructure there is much, much, simpler.
- patio11 8y ago
  Between the DCs they use 18 wheelers; they’re then taken on a smaller truck to a local site and take to the end user by a truck or handcart. It’s partially because of different relative distribution of supply and demand and partially because infrastructural technology is just better here. (Random customer visible example: high-end apartments in Tokyo generally have an on-site package locker so that companies can drop off packages even when the recipient isn’t home, which is a major convenience and avoids unnecessary redeliveries.)
  - pfranz 8y ago
    I was just staying in a place in the US that had a package room with per-parcel codes for access. It was kind of a terrible experience. Just because you had the address and unit number on there, you needed to be "in the system" so they could email/txt you an access code. I had a box of flowers for Mother's day that didn't show up until a week later. When everything did work as expected, it was still very problematic. Any "delivery" alerts were meaningless because it may not have been registered to the package room yet. The package room was a mess and was often difficult to find your packages--then you had to carry them all back to your unit. I'm not sure if they bundled access codes (i.e. 5 packages arrive but they only register the first and give you one code), but this seemed to happen to me. If you did forget a package they expired unused codes after you access. So if you forgot or couldn't carry everything you can no longer access the room. I'm sure this simplifies things for the carrier, but I wouldn't be surprised if missing packages increased sharply when these were introduced. I also got the feeling packages were delivered to the front office before this system was in place (which would be the same, or perhaps, less work for the carriers). Which negates a lot of the issues mentioned above, but does mean you can only pick up your packages during office hours. I haven't experienced Japanese package delivery, but when I first heard about it a few years ago I got super envious.

richardw 8y ago

Googled, am surprised: "FedEx recently stated that only about 3% of its revenues are derived from Amazon, while an estimated 7% of UPS’s revenues come from Amazon." https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/11/22/why-fedex-and-ups-dont-need-to-worry-about-amazon/amp/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/11/22/wh...

barkingcat 8y ago
Not surprised. Amazon has their "free shipping" program which puts enormous downward pressure on shipping pricing all the way back to the carriers. Non-Amazon traffic, for example, business to business traffic, might not be growing as fast, but Fedex/UPS can charge $50+ or even $200+ for a single shipment - that's more than probably the average lifetime shipping profit made from a single Amazon prime user - in one single business-to-business shipment! A regular North American business would probably have anywhere from 10 to 100 packages a day sent out via courier/UPS/Fedex. No problem seeing where the profits come from. Volume does not mean profit, especially when the volume is trying to push for eliminating UPS and FedEx's profits (via offering free shipping)