8 ms·

The thing I find curious about UPS/Fedex operations is that they're still oriented around a "make deliveries during business hours" model that made sense decade

The thing I find curious about UPS/Fedex operations is that they're still oriented around a "make deliveries during business hours" model that made sense decades ago when businesses were overnighting documents to each other, but makes less sense when traffic is largely goods ordered online and shipped to residences. To an outsider, it seems like door tags/missed deliveries/redeliveries must be inefficient, expensive, and almost entirely predictable for the carrier, while also being a major driver of customer pain.

heartbreak 8y ago
In my mid-Atlantic market, UPS Ground does residential deliveries exclusively between 5-8pm and business deliveries during normal business hours.
DrJokepu 8y ago
As a business owner I use UPS quite a bit to get things delivered to clients etc (during business hours) and I don't think twice about paying $70 for next day air delivery. I doubt online stores pay anything like that.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
spenczar5 8y ago
I wonder whether UPS’s business really is mostly residential. The business side is invisible to me - it could be huge, I don’t know. Does anyone have data?
- the-dude 8y ago
  It is huge. I consider UPS business orientation a plus : I know when they show up. Tracking is the best of the bunch. For example : Farnell ships with UPS. Farnell is a mostly B2B electronic components distributor. EU experience from good to bad : UPS, Fedex, DPD, TNT and then DHL which is the worst from a receivers perspective. edit: I should add, running a business from a residential location.
  - abrowne 8y ago
    DHL's estimated times are laughable wrong in my experience. So much for supposed German efficiency.
  - chx 8y ago
    This is strange. In my experience, shipping Hungary to Canada works best with UPS or Fedex but from Canada to Hungary it's DHL or trouble. In general, to the entire EU I vastly prefer DHL.
- ac29 8y ago
  I couldn't find an exact number, but their 2017 10-K has the statement "Business-to-consumer shipments [represented] more than 50% of total U.S. Domestic Package volume". http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9Njg5NjYzfENoaWxkSUQ9NDAxNzAyfFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1 http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9N...
rtkwe 8y ago
They have extended their delivery hours already. Most of my UPS packages come 7pm or later these days some even around 9pm even outside rush times like Christmas. There's just not enough hours available for them to do all residential deliveries during the 6/7-9/10 window when they could reasonably assume that people with 9-5 jobs would be home. Also it's become exceedingly rare for UPS or Fedex to leave me a slip these days the only missed delivery because of signature requirements for me have been USPS attempting to deliver international packages, can't actually remember the last time UPS or Fedex has delivered a package requiring a signature.
- konschubert 8y ago
  > Also it's become exceedingly rare for UPS or Fedex to leave me a slip these days So they just leave it in the hallway in front of the apartment door?
  - drdeadringer 8y ago
    Yes.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    I admittedly live somewhere that theft is unlikely to be an issue, but I now only get slips on the rare multi-thousand dollar item (plus the equally rare WTF "why do I have to sign for this?"). It used to be fairly common at the same location.
  - rtkwe 8y ago
    They leave it on my house's porch yeah. If it fits they stash it between the door and the storm door and if not it's tucked right up against the house hidden from the main road by a rather large bush (that I should stop putting off trimming).
quasse 8y ago
While I agree with you about the inconvenience of most residential shipping services, I think people not interacting directly with the industry tend to forget how absolutely huge the business-to-business market still is for UPS. I expect the margins are quite a bit larger for them there as well. Working in the engineering field, people send things at shipping prices of $50-$200 plus per package on the daily. The only thing that matters is that it arrives where it's needed fast. I can't say for sure, but I would expect that UPS is still more inclined to cater to the relatively price insensitive business customer over the Amazon Prime residential customer.
- icelancer 8y ago
  >> While I agree with you about the inconvenience of most residential shipping services, I think people not interacting directly with the industry tend to forget how absolutely huge the business-to-business market still is for UPS. I expect the margins are quite a bit larger for them there as well. Definitely. The consumer side is less relevant compared to the business side. We spend tons of money on UPS' insurance products that they must kill us on, but we have no choice, as we send $10k+ packages regularly. USPS' insurance is a complete joke but UPS/FedEx honor theirs pretty regularly, even if there are some hoops to jump.
  - nikofeyn 8y ago
    as a consumer, i can’t stand the insurance policies of shipping companies. you pay them to ship something, and then you have to pay them more to make sure they actually ship it properly. it’s insane to me. and UPS has gotten exceedingly picky. you cannot insure anything unless you let them pack it. i once tried to insure shipping a synth that i put back into the manufacturer’s own original box with the original packing material. this was then going to be out into a UPS box. the guy wouldn’t insure it because they didn’t pack it. he explained they would have to ship the synth in their own packing and then ship the box separately in the same box. that is just one insane example, but now, it can cost like $70-100 just to ship a normal sized, insured package with them. one time with the USPS, the mail person folded a large hardcover book in half like a taco to fit it into a PO box. when i called the local post office to complain to a manager, she explained that the shipper didn’t purchase insurance and so they couldn’t do anything. when i explained that was for accidents and not intentional destruction of packages she basically yelled at me and that was that. no follow up, no nothing. these shipping companies hide behind these insurance policies because they basically can do whatever they want with your package and it’s the only little power you have. and it’s obviously something they make a lot of money off of.
nostromo 8y ago
Imagine the efficiency gain of delivering packages in the middle of the night, when trucks can fly down the interstate with zero traffic.
- konschubert 8y ago
  And the noise and the poor staff who now has to work night shifts.
  - selectodude 8y ago
    UPS is very much a 24 hour operation. All of their flights are from like midnight-4am.
- SomewhatLikely 8y ago
  People tend to get suspicious of nighttime activities in the suburbs and exurbs. I'm not sure that would go over too well. But deliveries to lockers would make sense.
- asddddd 8y ago
  Delivering residentials after dark is an absolute nightmare. Is that house on the corner 5647 or 5643? Is there one house or two houses down the gravel driveway? Hope you've been driving the route for 30 years and have your daily 200-stop route memorized, because it can be a pain to figure out even in broad daylight.
Merad 8y ago
Bear in mind that UPS’ (and I’m sure Fedex too) entire operation is in motion 24/7. The brown trucks return to base full of packages, most of which need to be pushed upstream to regional sort facilities to go to other areas. Those regional facilities and everything larger are basically working nonstop IIRC. “Continuously delivery” would probably be difficult. Your typical truck will head out with 6-800 packages to be delivered in a 8-9 hour day, and they don’t all come in at once. Maybe you could send out trucks more often during the day, with fewer packages to be delivered over a larger area, but I’m not sure it would be that beneficial. You’d increase fuel and maintenance costs, plus you’d be paying your (fairly expensive) drivers to spend more time driving rather than delivering packages.
a3n 8y ago
FedEx makes it easy for consumers. They bought Kinkos some years ago. When a package is coming via FedEx, IHOP on their website, no registration required, and rerouted to the most convenient Kinkos. I pick it up when I want. When a package is coming via UPS, I weep.
- woobar 8y ago
  > When a package is coming via UPS, I weep. You can use Store Hold[1] at UPS Store (formerly known as Mail Boxes Etc). Wikipedia claims they have more locations than Fedex Office (~5000 vs 1900) [1] https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/sri/store-hold.page https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/sri/store-hold.page
- arentiright 8y ago
  You mean you IHOB on their website.
jeremy_wiebe 8y ago
I’ve taken to using shipping depots for amazon shipments. There’s a 7-Eleven just down my street that I can ship things too and pick them up at my convenience. It’s easier than missing the delivery guy and dealing with redelivery, or worse, going to the UPS centre and getting it.
Pxtl 8y ago
This. I have a post-office a 3 minute walk from my house, with long hours. The UPS drop-off is a pharmacy a 20-minute drive away that keep's bankers hours. If something ships to my house by UPS, I will get a paper notice that it's at the pharmacy and it appears there 2-4 business days later. Why can't I just order it dropped at the post office for me?
- laken 8y ago
  Unfortunately UPS can’t do anything about that - only USPS is allowed to deliver to post offices and mailboxes. They have a federally mandated monopoly on those.
  - hawaiianbrah 8y ago
    I believe this changed several years ago: https://postalpro.usps.com/competitivepoboxes https://postalpro.usps.com/competitivepoboxes
astura 8y ago
What makes you believe "traffic is largely goods ordered online and shipped to residences?" Business deliveries are still absolutely huge.

heartbreak 8y ago

In my mid-Atlantic market, UPS Ground does residential deliveries exclusively between 5-8pm and business deliveries during normal business hours.

DrJokepu 8y ago

As a business owner I use UPS quite a bit to get things delivered to clients etc (during business hours) and I don't think twice about paying $70 for next day air delivery. I doubt online stores pay anything like that.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

spenczar5 8y ago

I wonder whether UPS’s business really is mostly residential. The business side is invisible to me - it could be huge, I don’t know. Does anyone have data?

the-dude 8y ago
It is huge. I consider UPS business orientation a plus : I know when they show up. Tracking is the best of the bunch. For example : Farnell ships with UPS. Farnell is a mostly B2B electronic components distributor. EU experience from good to bad : UPS, Fedex, DPD, TNT and then DHL which is the worst from a receivers perspective. edit: I should add, running a business from a residential location.
- abrowne 8y ago
  DHL's estimated times are laughable wrong in my experience. So much for supposed German efficiency.
- chx 8y ago
  This is strange. In my experience, shipping Hungary to Canada works best with UPS or Fedex but from Canada to Hungary it's DHL or trouble. In general, to the entire EU I vastly prefer DHL.
ac29 8y ago
I couldn't find an exact number, but their 2017 10-K has the statement "Business-to-consumer shipments [represented] more than 50% of total U.S. Domestic Package volume". http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9Njg5NjYzfENoaWxkSUQ9NDAxNzAyfFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1 http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9N...

rtkwe 8y ago

They have extended their delivery hours already. Most of my UPS packages come 7pm or later these days some even around 9pm even outside rush times like Christmas. There's just not enough hours available for them to do all residential deliveries during the 6/7-9/10 window when they could reasonably assume that people with 9-5 jobs would be home. Also it's become exceedingly rare for UPS or Fedex to leave me a slip these days the only missed delivery because of signature requirements for me have been USPS attempting to deliver international packages, can't actually remember the last time UPS or Fedex has delivered a package requiring a signature.

konschubert 8y ago
> Also it's become exceedingly rare for UPS or Fedex to leave me a slip these days So they just leave it in the hallway in front of the apartment door?
- drdeadringer 8y ago
  Yes.
- ghaff 8y ago
  I admittedly live somewhere that theft is unlikely to be an issue, but I now only get slips on the rare multi-thousand dollar item (plus the equally rare WTF "why do I have to sign for this?"). It used to be fairly common at the same location.
- rtkwe 8y ago
  They leave it on my house's porch yeah. If it fits they stash it between the door and the storm door and if not it's tucked right up against the house hidden from the main road by a rather large bush (that I should stop putting off trimming).

quasse 8y ago

While I agree with you about the inconvenience of most residential shipping services, I think people not interacting directly with the industry tend to forget how absolutely huge the business-to-business market still is for UPS. I expect the margins are quite a bit larger for them there as well. Working in the engineering field, people send things at shipping prices of $50-$200 plus per package on the daily. The only thing that matters is that it arrives where it's needed fast. I can't say for sure, but I would expect that UPS is still more inclined to cater to the relatively price insensitive business customer over the Amazon Prime residential customer.

icelancer 8y ago
>> While I agree with you about the inconvenience of most residential shipping services, I think people not interacting directly with the industry tend to forget how absolutely huge the business-to-business market still is for UPS. I expect the margins are quite a bit larger for them there as well. Definitely. The consumer side is less relevant compared to the business side. We spend tons of money on UPS' insurance products that they must kill us on, but we have no choice, as we send $10k+ packages regularly. USPS' insurance is a complete joke but UPS/FedEx honor theirs pretty regularly, even if there are some hoops to jump.
- nikofeyn 8y ago
  as a consumer, i can’t stand the insurance policies of shipping companies. you pay them to ship something, and then you have to pay them more to make sure they actually ship it properly. it’s insane to me. and UPS has gotten exceedingly picky. you cannot insure anything unless you let them pack it. i once tried to insure shipping a synth that i put back into the manufacturer’s own original box with the original packing material. this was then going to be out into a UPS box. the guy wouldn’t insure it because they didn’t pack it. he explained they would have to ship the synth in their own packing and then ship the box separately in the same box. that is just one insane example, but now, it can cost like $70-100 just to ship a normal sized, insured package with them. one time with the USPS, the mail person folded a large hardcover book in half like a taco to fit it into a PO box. when i called the local post office to complain to a manager, she explained that the shipper didn’t purchase insurance and so they couldn’t do anything. when i explained that was for accidents and not intentional destruction of packages she basically yelled at me and that was that. no follow up, no nothing. these shipping companies hide behind these insurance policies because they basically can do whatever they want with your package and it’s the only little power you have. and it’s obviously something they make a lot of money off of.

nostromo 8y ago

Imagine the efficiency gain of delivering packages in the middle of the night, when trucks can fly down the interstate with zero traffic.

konschubert 8y ago
And the noise and the poor staff who now has to work night shifts.
- selectodude 8y ago
  UPS is very much a 24 hour operation. All of their flights are from like midnight-4am.
SomewhatLikely 8y ago
People tend to get suspicious of nighttime activities in the suburbs and exurbs. I'm not sure that would go over too well. But deliveries to lockers would make sense.
asddddd 8y ago
Delivering residentials after dark is an absolute nightmare. Is that house on the corner 5647 or 5643? Is there one house or two houses down the gravel driveway? Hope you've been driving the route for 30 years and have your daily 200-stop route memorized, because it can be a pain to figure out even in broad daylight.

Merad 8y ago

Bear in mind that UPS’ (and I’m sure Fedex too) entire operation is in motion 24/7. The brown trucks return to base full of packages, most of which need to be pushed upstream to regional sort facilities to go to other areas. Those regional facilities and everything larger are basically working nonstop IIRC. “Continuously delivery” would probably be difficult. Your typical truck will head out with 6-800 packages to be delivered in a 8-9 hour day, and they don’t all come in at once. Maybe you could send out trucks more often during the day, with fewer packages to be delivered over a larger area, but I’m not sure it would be that beneficial. You’d increase fuel and maintenance costs, plus you’d be paying your (fairly expensive) drivers to spend more time driving rather than delivering packages.

a3n 8y ago

FedEx makes it easy for consumers. They bought Kinkos some years ago. When a package is coming via FedEx, IHOP on their website, no registration required, and rerouted to the most convenient Kinkos. I pick it up when I want. When a package is coming via UPS, I weep.

woobar 8y ago
> When a package is coming via UPS, I weep. You can use Store Hold[1] at UPS Store (formerly known as Mail Boxes Etc). Wikipedia claims they have more locations than Fedex Office (~5000 vs 1900) [1] https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/sri/store-hold.page https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/sri/store-hold.page
arentiright 8y ago
You mean you IHOB on their website.

jeremy_wiebe 8y ago

I’ve taken to using shipping depots for amazon shipments. There’s a 7-Eleven just down my street that I can ship things too and pick them up at my convenience. It’s easier than missing the delivery guy and dealing with redelivery, or worse, going to the UPS centre and getting it.

Pxtl 8y ago

This. I have a post-office a 3 minute walk from my house, with long hours. The UPS drop-off is a pharmacy a 20-minute drive away that keep's bankers hours. If something ships to my house by UPS, I will get a paper notice that it's at the pharmacy and it appears there 2-4 business days later. Why can't I just order it dropped at the post office for me?

laken 8y ago
Unfortunately UPS can’t do anything about that - only USPS is allowed to deliver to post offices and mailboxes. They have a federally mandated monopoly on those.
- hawaiianbrah 8y ago
  I believe this changed several years ago: https://postalpro.usps.com/competitivepoboxes https://postalpro.usps.com/competitivepoboxes

astura 8y ago

What makes you believe "traffic is largely goods ordered online and shipped to residences?" Business deliveries are still absolutely huge.