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Minneapolis police previously had no policy addressing the drug, and the department manual classifies it as a “date rape drug” for its powerful sedative impact

Minneapolis police previously had no policy addressing the drug, and the department manual classifies it as a “date rape drug” for its powerful sedative impact and ability to erase or alter memory. That's funny, because the World Health Organization classifies it as an "essential medicine." I'm being somewhat disingenuous as I do understand it has potential for abuse, but "date rape drug"? I've never once heard of ketamine used for that. Meanwhile it's being looked at for treating depression and other things. This over-the-top drug war rhetoric is so frustrating.

eesmith 8y ago
I am surprised as your surprise. For example, the term "date rape" occurs twice on the Wikipedia page for ketamine: > In December 2013, the government of India, in response to rising recreational use and the use of ketamine as a date rape drug, has added it to Schedule X of the Drug and Cosmetics Act requiring a special license for sale and maintenance of records of all sales for two years. > Because of its ability to cause confusion and amnesia, ketamine can leave users vulnerable to date rape. It's not hard to find things like: > "Tests for “date rape” drugs, such as Rohypnol and ketamine, were conducted. Those tests came back negative." - https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/attorneys-for-kenneka-jenkins-mother-file-motion-to-preserve-video/ https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/attorneys-for-kenneka-jenk... > "Three teenagers are being praised for a straw they invented to detect the presence of date rape drugs in drinks. ... two common drugs used in assaults — GHB and Ketamine" - https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/straw-detect-date-rape-drugs-teen-inventors-miami-11200401.php https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/straw-detect-date-ra... > It’s called ketamine, a class III scheduled drug .... The drug is the most commonly used among veterinarians for anesthetic purposes, according to Medical News Today, but is often illegally used in clubs and as a date-rape drug. - http://www.miamiherald.com/article206350184.html http://www.miamiherald.com/article206350184.html
- resu_nimda 8y ago
  But did you actually know of it as a date rape drug before you googled "ketamine date rape?" Not one of those articles (including the two referenced in the Wikipedia quote) even attempts to substantiate any connection between ketamine and date rape. They just put the terms together, sometimes in the headline, to create an association without actually supporting it. One of them contains a statement from an Indian FDA official that "Its misuse is rampant. Its powdered form has been associated with sexual assault cases world over." Not exactly convincing. You may deduce that I am a user of ketamine. I do think it has potential and it is clearly deemed safe by health professionals. Putting "KETAMINE DATE RAPE" in headlines/subtitles of articles that have nothing to do with someone being date raped is not useful.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    Ketamine is used as a drug rape drug. Here's a government level organisation listing ketamine as a drug rape drug. Ketamine has the advantage of being easy to get hold of; quick acting; and memory affecting. https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/drink-spiking-and-date-rape-drugs/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/drink-spiking-and-... Notice that drugs are not commonly used in sexual assault, and they're only talking about a few hundreds of spiked drinks. (In the UK about 90,000 people are raped each year. Many more are sexually assaulted.) If someone's drinking it's far easier to just give them more alcohol. I get that you enjoy ketamine, but it's a bit worrying when drug users deny any possible harm that happens with their drug of choice. It means Public Health workers have to spend time debunking both sides of the discussion.
    - resu_nimda 8y ago
      I did say in my first post that I understand it can be abused. I don't mean to claim that nobody has ever used ketamine for such purposes. I do think that the original article and some of the other ones linked draw wholly unnecessary connections between ketamine and date rape. As you note, it is a very minor use case, and alcohol itself is far more often implicated in these situations, yet we don't read articles that casually mention "the date rape drug alcohol." I don't think there is any special conspiracy against ketamine, but it's just part of the way major media outlets distort these things to play up shock/outrage/drama.
      - eesmith 8y ago
        You said "I've never once heard of ketamine used for that." and asked me "But did you actually know of it as a date rape drug before you googled "ketamine date rape?"" Yes. I heard about that putative connection from one of the times when the "date rape drug detection straw" or something similar made the rounds. At this point I can no longer find the specific link. I think it was from last year. Two possibilities from the media I frequent are: * HN 5 years ago at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6122049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6122049 . (The link to the original article no longer exists.) * Phyrangula from 6 years ago https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/04/its-a-good-idea-its-depressing-that-its-necessary/ https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/04/its-a-goo... Looking at the other media sites I read: * Neatorama from 8 years ago https://www.neatorama.com/2010/06/30/10-weird-items-people-tried-to-smuggle/ https://www.neatorama.com/2010/06/30/10-weird-items-people-t... says "tests on the liquid found the animal tranquilizer ketamine, a hallucinogenic drug often used in date rape" * a comment on BoingBoing last year is the comment "From horse tranq, to date rape drug, to therapy. Is there anything Special K can’t do?", at https://bbs.boingboing.net/t/dissociative-psychedelic-ketamine-may-help-suicidal-children/104636 https://bbs.boingboing.net/t/dissociative-psychedelic-ketami... . A 12 year old BoingBoing article at https://boingboing.net/2006/09/20/willie-nelsons-myste.html https://boingboing.net/2006/09/20/willie-nelsons-myste.html references the commentary: > For instance, one report called the disassociative hallucinogen Ketamine a “date rape drug.” There is, of course, no such thing as a date rape drug. There are drugs that were developed to be used – and are used – for other purposes that are, on rare occasions, used for date rape. And then there’s alcohol, which has been the more easily available and frequently used substance of choice for date rapists since time immemorial. I completely agree that the association with ketamine as a "date rape drug" is hyped-up drug-war propaganda, and alcohol is a far more common date rape drug, and ketamine has has many therapeutic uses. (Look at how many people are allowed to carry explosives with them on a plane - nitroglycerin is a common heart medicine.) But I think I have demonstrated enough examples which show why I don't think you should be surprised when someone makes that connection. Instead, I think you should be pushing back against the propaganda.

eesmith 8y ago

I am surprised as your surprise. For example, the term "date rape" occurs twice on the Wikipedia page for ketamine: > In December 2013, the government of India, in response to rising recreational use and the use of ketamine as a date rape drug, has added it to Schedule X of the Drug and Cosmetics Act requiring a special license for sale and maintenance of records of all sales for two years. > Because of its ability to cause confusion and amnesia, ketamine can leave users vulnerable to date rape. It's not hard to find things like: > "Tests for “date rape” drugs, such as Rohypnol and ketamine, were conducted. Those tests came back negative." - https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/attorneys-for-kenneka-jenkins-mother-file-motion-to-preserve-video/ https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/attorneys-for-kenneka-jenk... > "Three teenagers are being praised for a straw they invented to detect the presence of date rape drugs in drinks. ... two common drugs used in assaults — GHB and Ketamine" - https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/straw-detect-date-rape-drugs-teen-inventors-miami-11200401.php https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/straw-detect-date-ra... > It’s called ketamine, a class III scheduled drug .... The drug is the most commonly used among veterinarians for anesthetic purposes, according to Medical News Today, but is often illegally used in clubs and as a date-rape drug. - http://www.miamiherald.com/article206350184.html http://www.miamiherald.com/article206350184.html

resu_nimda 8y ago
But did you actually know of it as a date rape drug before you googled "ketamine date rape?" Not one of those articles (including the two referenced in the Wikipedia quote) even attempts to substantiate any connection between ketamine and date rape. They just put the terms together, sometimes in the headline, to create an association without actually supporting it. One of them contains a statement from an Indian FDA official that "Its misuse is rampant. Its powdered form has been associated with sexual assault cases world over." Not exactly convincing. You may deduce that I am a user of ketamine. I do think it has potential and it is clearly deemed safe by health professionals. Putting "KETAMINE DATE RAPE" in headlines/subtitles of articles that have nothing to do with someone being date raped is not useful.
- DanBC 8y ago
  Ketamine is used as a drug rape drug. Here's a government level organisation listing ketamine as a drug rape drug. Ketamine has the advantage of being easy to get hold of; quick acting; and memory affecting. https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/drink-spiking-and-date-rape-drugs/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/drink-spiking-and-... Notice that drugs are not commonly used in sexual assault, and they're only talking about a few hundreds of spiked drinks. (In the UK about 90,000 people are raped each year. Many more are sexually assaulted.) If someone's drinking it's far easier to just give them more alcohol. I get that you enjoy ketamine, but it's a bit worrying when drug users deny any possible harm that happens with their drug of choice. It means Public Health workers have to spend time debunking both sides of the discussion.
  - resu_nimda 8y ago
    I did say in my first post that I understand it can be abused. I don't mean to claim that nobody has ever used ketamine for such purposes. I do think that the original article and some of the other ones linked draw wholly unnecessary connections between ketamine and date rape. As you note, it is a very minor use case, and alcohol itself is far more often implicated in these situations, yet we don't read articles that casually mention "the date rape drug alcohol." I don't think there is any special conspiracy against ketamine, but it's just part of the way major media outlets distort these things to play up shock/outrage/drama.
    - eesmith 8y ago
      You said "I've never once heard of ketamine used for that." and asked me "But did you actually know of it as a date rape drug before you googled "ketamine date rape?"" Yes. I heard about that putative connection from one of the times when the "date rape drug detection straw" or something similar made the rounds. At this point I can no longer find the specific link. I think it was from last year. Two possibilities from the media I frequent are: * HN 5 years ago at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6122049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6122049 . (The link to the original article no longer exists.) * Phyrangula from 6 years ago https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/04/its-a-good-idea-its-depressing-that-its-necessary/ https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/04/its-a-goo... Looking at the other media sites I read: * Neatorama from 8 years ago https://www.neatorama.com/2010/06/30/10-weird-items-people-tried-to-smuggle/ https://www.neatorama.com/2010/06/30/10-weird-items-people-t... says "tests on the liquid found the animal tranquilizer ketamine, a hallucinogenic drug often used in date rape" * a comment on BoingBoing last year is the comment "From horse tranq, to date rape drug, to therapy. Is there anything Special K can’t do?", at https://bbs.boingboing.net/t/dissociative-psychedelic-ketamine-may-help-suicidal-children/104636 https://bbs.boingboing.net/t/dissociative-psychedelic-ketami... . A 12 year old BoingBoing article at https://boingboing.net/2006/09/20/willie-nelsons-myste.html https://boingboing.net/2006/09/20/willie-nelsons-myste.html references the commentary: > For instance, one report called the disassociative hallucinogen Ketamine a “date rape drug.” There is, of course, no such thing as a date rape drug. There are drugs that were developed to be used – and are used – for other purposes that are, on rare occasions, used for date rape. And then there’s alcohol, which has been the more easily available and frequently used substance of choice for date rapists since time immemorial. I completely agree that the association with ketamine as a "date rape drug" is hyped-up drug-war propaganda, and alcohol is a far more common date rape drug, and ketamine has has many therapeutic uses. (Look at how many people are allowed to carry explosives with them on a plane - nitroglycerin is a common heart medicine.) But I think I have demonstrated enough examples which show why I don't think you should be surprised when someone makes that connection. Instead, I think you should be pushing back against the propaganda.