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So this is the result of several factors that are at odds with each other. 1. There is no per-country quota on H1Bs 2. There is a per-country quota on EB-1/2/

by cletus 8y ago

So this is the result of several factors that are at odds with each other. 1. There is no per-country quota on H1Bs 2. There is a per-country quota on EB-1/2/3 GCs 3. And this is crux of the problem: H1Bs are issued indiscriminately, most problematically to so-called bodyshops. There are various proposals to fix the immigration backlog. There's one bill that would get rid of per-country quotas. I wonder what that would do to the backlog of everyone. I kind of see this one as a nonstarter. Bizarrely, it's the current (otherwise abhorrent) administration that is the first to even talk about fixing the real problem, which is (3). H1Bs are a lottery now. When the likes of FAAMG companies can't hire people because the likes of Infosys and Tata are flooding applications for people who will essentially become indentured servants, that's a problem. Infosys settled a visa fraud case with the US government several years ago including a payment of millions of dollars. How exactly are they still able to apply for visas? There are problems with ranking applicants based on salary (or total compensation) as the one proposal would do. This would potentially drown out lower-paid STEM fields that have legitimate need with FAAMG SWEs. Then again... that's still probably better than the current system. People have also complained "well you can't hire graduates if you rank on salary". That's true. But at the same time, are newly minted college graduates fulfilling unsatisfied demand for specialty occupation? Or just being used to lower labour costs?

mehrdada 8y ago
+1 This is the correct analysis of the article with sensational title. Of all the problems the immigration system has, this is probably one that is least fundamental and the bill would solve basically zero problems for the nation and is simply a political question of who gets to win a limited resource between various foreign players. The entire premise of "limiting immigration" is discrimination based on a binary national origin/citizenship (i.e. you happened to be one of us or not) so it is comically laughable to talk about how to make such system "fair" without opening it to everyone, which has practical issues. Immigration is an inherently political mechanism constructed as a result of amalgamation of various underlying game theoretic balances and trade-offs over the years between nation states. It's important to note that you cannot divorce the individuals from their own governments/resource allocation when thinking about that.
throwaway12122 8y ago
Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that? Why is nobody talking about the 100 thousand Indian students who come to US every year? Who is employing them? These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system. They go through lengths to stay in US. They will settle for low salary so that they don't have to leave the country. Literally every scam I saw in H1B is from body shops in US, not the Indian companies. Indian companies do abuse it, by forcing the employees to sign a bond that if they want to resign, they have to come back to India and serve a 3 months notice (I know a Indian arm of an American product company who is top 1 or 2 in what they do with a 12 months notice policy by the way) or pay 5-10 lakhs Indian rupee if they want their experience certificate. And the pay offered is also only half or less of what they charge the customer. >IT industry body Nasscom on Monday came out in defence of its members TCS and Infosys, saying the two accounted for only 7,504—8.8%—of the approved H1B visas in 2014-15. https://www.livemint.com/Industry/pHkRcTtIoKd8MkTkBNdtSN/Infosys-TCS-accounted-for-only-88-of-total-H1B-visasNass.html https://www.livemint.com/Industry/pHkRcTtIoKd8MkTkBNdtSN/Inf...
- abc_lisper 8y ago
  > Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that? They must be partial to Infosys. I mean, what did it do. https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.asp... > These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system. Right, the startups in bay area, good groups at Apples, Googles and Facebooks of the world are filled with people from Infosys ;) >Literally every scam I saw in H1B is from body shops in US That's partially true; I will let it slide I understand you are frustrated, but you are barking up the wrong tree. The trouble is the easy jobs i.e, low-skilled in high-tech, are already filled. For example, see clouts of Infosys employees in some US companies. These days, people have two options, be really good at what they do, or find a clout to stick to. May be you had a hard time sticking to the Infosys clout(I am not surprised, given that you like to think). Don't blame it on others. If anything, most of the technically competent desi people in US have a US degree.
  - mavelikara 8y ago
partycoder 8y ago
Infosys and Tata are far worse than that. They request power of attorney from employees, file their tax returns on their behalf and steal their tax return money. Some employees do not receive their full wage. In paper they meet H-1B salary requirements but in practice they don't. They are not only in violation of immigration law but labor law as well.
- throwaway12122 8y ago
  This is no way correct. The employees file their own returns just like any other American. And they get paid the full salary mentioned in the offer letter they received when they were deputed. The only "violation" I know these companies do is that they make the employee sign a bond that they have to come back to India and give a 3 months notice period if they want to resign while in US. And this is not just Indian companies. I was surprised to learn recently that the Indian division of an American product company (top 1 or 2 in the world in what they do) has a 12 months notice period with around 10 lakh rupees bond. Compared to that, Indian companies are less evil. Another thing the Indian companies do is make you work on less desirable projects or otherwise you have to go back to India. And they don't treat their employees the same way a product company in America would do. They see us more or less as "you should be grateful to us that we gave you chance to come to US".
  - partycoder 8y ago
    It is correct because there are lawsuits and settlements involved. Maybe it is no longer the case but it has happened.

by cletus 8y ago

mehrdada 8y ago

+1 This is the correct analysis of the article with sensational title. Of all the problems the immigration system has, this is probably one that is least fundamental and the bill would solve basically zero problems for the nation and is simply a political question of who gets to win a limited resource between various foreign players. The entire premise of "limiting immigration" is discrimination based on a binary national origin/citizenship (i.e. you happened to be one of us or not) so it is comically laughable to talk about how to make such system "fair" without opening it to everyone, which has practical issues. Immigration is an inherently political mechanism constructed as a result of amalgamation of various underlying game theoretic balances and trade-offs over the years between nation states. It's important to note that you cannot divorce the individuals from their own governments/resource allocation when thinking about that.

throwaway12122 8y ago

Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that? Why is nobody talking about the 100 thousand Indian students who come to US every year? Who is employing them? These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system. They go through lengths to stay in US. They will settle for low salary so that they don't have to leave the country. Literally every scam I saw in H1B is from body shops in US, not the Indian companies. Indian companies do abuse it, by forcing the employees to sign a bond that if they want to resign, they have to come back to India and serve a 3 months notice (I know a Indian arm of an American product company who is top 1 or 2 in what they do with a 12 months notice policy by the way) or pay 5-10 lakhs Indian rupee if they want their experience certificate. And the pay offered is also only half or less of what they charge the customer. >IT industry body Nasscom on Monday came out in defence of its members TCS and Infosys, saying the two accounted for only 7,504—8.8%—of the approved H1B visas in 2014-15. https://www.livemint.com/Industry/pHkRcTtIoKd8MkTkBNdtSN/Infosys-TCS-accounted-for-only-88-of-total-H1B-visasNass.html https://www.livemint.com/Industry/pHkRcTtIoKd8MkTkBNdtSN/Inf...

abc_lisper 8y ago
> Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that? They must be partial to Infosys. I mean, what did it do. https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.asp... > These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system. Right, the startups in bay area, good groups at Apples, Googles and Facebooks of the world are filled with people from Infosys ;) >Literally every scam I saw in H1B is from body shops in US That's partially true; I will let it slide I understand you are frustrated, but you are barking up the wrong tree. The trouble is the easy jobs i.e, low-skilled in high-tech, are already filled. For example, see clouts of Infosys employees in some US companies. These days, people have two options, be really good at what they do, or find a clout to stick to. May be you had a hard time sticking to the Infosys clout(I am not surprised, given that you like to think). Don't blame it on others. If anything, most of the technically competent desi people in US have a US degree.
- mavelikara 8y ago

partycoder 8y ago

Infosys and Tata are far worse than that. They request power of attorney from employees, file their tax returns on their behalf and steal their tax return money. Some employees do not receive their full wage. In paper they meet H-1B salary requirements but in practice they don't. They are not only in violation of immigration law but labor law as well.

throwaway12122 8y ago
This is no way correct. The employees file their own returns just like any other American. And they get paid the full salary mentioned in the offer letter they received when they were deputed. The only "violation" I know these companies do is that they make the employee sign a bond that they have to come back to India and give a 3 months notice period if they want to resign while in US. And this is not just Indian companies. I was surprised to learn recently that the Indian division of an American product company (top 1 or 2 in the world in what they do) has a 12 months notice period with around 10 lakh rupees bond. Compared to that, Indian companies are less evil. Another thing the Indian companies do is make you work on less desirable projects or otherwise you have to go back to India. And they don't treat their employees the same way a product company in America would do. They see us more or less as "you should be grateful to us that we gave you chance to come to US".
- partycoder 8y ago
  It is correct because there are lawsuits and settlements involved. Maybe it is no longer the case but it has happened.