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I'm curious why a superhost renting a bunch of properties is "sketchy" while a corporate hotel brand with many properties is to be trusted. What if the hosts re

I'm curious why a superhost renting a bunch of properties is "sketchy" while a corporate hotel brand with many properties is to be trusted. What if the hosts registered LLCs and listed their friendly sounding corporation names instead? What was sketchy was when I used to have to rent apartments in cities off Craigslist with absolutely no regulation, no escrow, and no reputation to avoid people who literally just finished ripping someone off. This is where many cities seem to want to return. Since many people prefer to stay in apartments / houses while they travel, some of the hotels will not be needed and can be converted into additional housing. It makes sense that there would be entrepreneurs who learn to make these places attractive to travelers while maintaining low costs to clean and maintain the property. In fact, these places are often better run than a property that is only rented out a few times a year. If I were the cities, I would focus on regulating the things that really impact quality of life (e.g. having firm penalties for frequent noise violations) without trying to micromanage how people use hotels versus apartments. People will always rent apartments, do house swaps, couchsurf, etc. and its often a win-win for everyone involved. Punish the bad actors, leave people alone who rent a lot of places out but don't trigger complaints, and avoid pushing the movement underground where you can't tax it or try to help with noise violations and other problems.

detaro 8y ago
It's sketchy if they pretend to not be a superhost, and I'd at least suspect that they're not operating entirely proper businesses then too.
- mrgordon 8y ago
  Well its a bit of a chicken and egg problem then, right? If you say they pretend not to be a superhost, then that seems to imply they have multiple accounts. The only reason they would do this is because their city has put in place strict rules against renting multiple properties out. If the city hadn't put those rules in place, those people would have one account and wouldn't be "sketchy" anymore. Meanwhile the same people will instead now go to Craigslist or a local equivalent and rent out 50 properties without the need to create any accounts or earn superhost status. They won't report that income, it won't be taxed, and they probably won't have a legitimate business. Somehow this is a win.
  - bradleyjg 8y ago
    “If only there weren’t laws against robbing banks I’d be a totally upright citizen. It’s law maker’s fault that I’m a criminal!”
    - Isinlor 8y ago
      - I own property and I want to rent it. - "Hang the criminal!", says the crowd... Capitalist pig wants to own and profit from something! How dare she/he?!
      - Xylakant 8y ago
        Ownership is a concept enabled and enforced by the society, so it’s always been that the society can enforce restrictions on what owners can do with things they own. Not running an unlicensed hotel from your property is one of those restrictions. If you don’t like it, sell it. Or get a license and comply with regulations.
        Isinlor 8y ago
        If I don't like it, I can protest it. Also, I don't own any property myself. I'm upset by limiting my opportunity to visit cities cheaply.
        Xylakant 8y ago
        Sure you can protest. But your post very much sounded like you’re upset that any restrictions are imposed. And that’s just an unrealistic stance. I own my flat and I’m not whining that I can’t do whatever I want with it because it was in those pesky laws and the effin contract that I signed when I bought it. So yeah, I suck it up and deal with it. It’s called being a member of society.
      - bradleyjg 8y ago
        Real property ownership is a limited bundle of rights. It has been that for centuries before you or I were born. Before deeds even existed in what is today the United States. It’s a model that has a great track record, but if you aren’t a fan of Anglo-American property law (too “socialist” I guess) you are free to leave. I hear there’s some empty land in Antarctica.
intended 8y ago
I’d say you’ve lost the fight when you are comparing share housing, with a fully incorporated hotel chain At that point I’d just force the owner of the shared housing to comply with hotel laws for that country, modified for whatever infrastructural differences there may be.
tylermenezes 8y ago
As a guest, it's sketchy because the property is usually not-well-cared-for and they've often pissed off the neighbors because they can't deal with nuisance guests.
- mrgordon 8y ago
  This is a gross generalization. I've stayed at many properties where the person was truly into hospitality and created a much better experience than I would get staying in someone's spare bedroom that they've never rented out before. People who host regularly often tend to leave things stocked in the house that come in handy, have maps of their favorite local restaurants and attractions, etc. whereas a small time host simply hasn't had time (or often inclination) to do those things. Professional hosts also often have much better systems for key handoff, people you can call if something goes wrong, etc.
  - tptacek 8y ago
    This isn't responsive to his point. Nobody is saying you're a nuisance guest, or that you haven't met hosts who are concerned about nuisance guests. They're saying that nuisance guests are a thing that happens, which seems self-evidently true.
    - mrgordon 8y ago
      Actually I responded directly to the claim that the professional properties are "usually not-well-cared-for" which was an unsubstantiated claim that is clearly way too broad of a generalization. As far as nuisance guests, I've said elsewhere in the thread that I think the cities should not hesitate to give out large fines for recurring noise violations from one address. Party houses and frats also make a lot of noise even though they have nothing to do with vacation rentals. Banning Airbnb is a less direct solution to that problem than simply passing and enforcing noise regulations. People will just rent on Craigslist and make as much noise as they want if you don't.
      - tptacek 8y ago
tptacek 8y ago
This is a lot of words for a question that seems like it has a simple answer. Whatever the difference is between being an "Airbnb superhost" and maintaining a license to operate a bed and breakfast out of your property, that's the "sketchiness" quotient we're talking about.
- mrgordon 8y ago
  In many cases you cannot get a license to operate a bed and breakfast out of your property because they issue very few licenses and require various things like serving breakfast which most hosts don't do. That doesn't make vacation rentals inherently sketchy. It just means that technology has enabled a different solution for the problem then was possible before and now cities will work out to what degree they will embrace it versus trying to regulate it out of existence. Don't get me wrong, I think certain aspects need to be strictly regulated but requiring tons of red tape to rent your apartment out once a year while you go abroad is not the long term solution and is a waste of usable space. I think in the future people will laugh at how byzantine the laws were to rent out an apartment. Especially in these cities where the hotels are filled up and now people will just leave their apartments empty instead of accommodating people.
  - tptacek 8y ago
    Then, there you go, that's part of the sketchiness of Airbnb: a public policy decision was made to limit the number of short-term rental places (hotels, b-n-b's, etc), and part of what Airbnb is doing is simply overriding that by overwhelming the enforcement capabilities of cities.
    - dorchadas 8y ago
      Exactly. And it's definitely contributing to the housing crises in some cities. People would rather buy apartments/houses and put them on AirBnB, instead of renting them out to the people who work and need to live in the city. I know it's definitely part of the issue in Ireland, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the case elsewhere as well.
sorokod 8y ago
I'm curious why a superhost renting a bunch of properties is "sketchy" while a corporate hotel brand with many properties is to be trusted. Not sure that "sketchy" is the adjective I'd use. The thing is that a city is not a petri dish for competing business to squeeze as much nutrients from the environment as possible. First and foremost it's a place for humans to live and thrive. That "Residents can only rent out their property for a maximum of 90 nights a year when they are not living there" is an attempt to keep them this way.
darpa_escapee 8y ago
Most hotels/motels of that size have clearly marked exits, fire sprinkler systems and are built to code. I've stayed in Airbnbs where twelve people are in an apartment meant for maybe half of that or less. I had one host, who managed/owned several properties, run an extension cord right along the rim of a bathtub so it could reach one of those dish-style space heaters they stuck in the corner of the bathroom. Neither the cord placement, the non-GFCI outlet it was plugged into, nor the type of space heater were suited for the wet, humid environment of the bathroom. To me, that's sketchy.
- mrgordon 8y ago
  Sounds like you should have reported that rental instead of taking it out on all vacation rentals. I can send you pictures of very sketchy hotels that I've stayed in where the bathroom was literally unusable. I still don't want to ban hotels. I give the hotel a scathing review, sometimes complain to them directly, and then I move on.
  - darpa_escapee 8y ago
    > Sounds like you should have reported that rental instead of taking it out on all vacation rentals. Care to show me what you interpreted as me 'taking it out on all vacation rentals?' > I still don't want to ban hotels. I give the hotel a scathing review, sometimes complain to them directly, and then I move on. Cool? I understand that you think that I want to ban vacation rentals, but perhaps you should reread my post before responding with assumptions and non-sequiturs. Airbnbs are generally unregulated and hosts, more often than not, try to hide their business from landlords, neighbors and their local government.

detaro 8y ago

It's sketchy if they pretend to not be a superhost, and I'd at least suspect that they're not operating entirely proper businesses then too.

mrgordon 8y ago
Well its a bit of a chicken and egg problem then, right? If you say they pretend not to be a superhost, then that seems to imply they have multiple accounts. The only reason they would do this is because their city has put in place strict rules against renting multiple properties out. If the city hadn't put those rules in place, those people would have one account and wouldn't be "sketchy" anymore. Meanwhile the same people will instead now go to Craigslist or a local equivalent and rent out 50 properties without the need to create any accounts or earn superhost status. They won't report that income, it won't be taxed, and they probably won't have a legitimate business. Somehow this is a win.
- bradleyjg 8y ago
  “If only there weren’t laws against robbing banks I’d be a totally upright citizen. It’s law maker’s fault that I’m a criminal!”
  - Isinlor 8y ago
    - I own property and I want to rent it. - "Hang the criminal!", says the crowd... Capitalist pig wants to own and profit from something! How dare she/he?!
    - Xylakant 8y ago
      Ownership is a concept enabled and enforced by the society, so it’s always been that the society can enforce restrictions on what owners can do with things they own. Not running an unlicensed hotel from your property is one of those restrictions. If you don’t like it, sell it. Or get a license and comply with regulations.
      - Isinlor 8y ago
        If I don't like it, I can protest it. Also, I don't own any property myself. I'm upset by limiting my opportunity to visit cities cheaply.
        Xylakant 8y ago
        Sure you can protest. But your post very much sounded like you’re upset that any restrictions are imposed. And that’s just an unrealistic stance. I own my flat and I’m not whining that I can’t do whatever I want with it because it was in those pesky laws and the effin contract that I signed when I bought it. So yeah, I suck it up and deal with it. It’s called being a member of society.
    - bradleyjg 8y ago
      Real property ownership is a limited bundle of rights. It has been that for centuries before you or I were born. Before deeds even existed in what is today the United States. It’s a model that has a great track record, but if you aren’t a fan of Anglo-American property law (too “socialist” I guess) you are free to leave. I hear there’s some empty land in Antarctica.

intended 8y ago

I’d say you’ve lost the fight when you are comparing share housing, with a fully incorporated hotel chain At that point I’d just force the owner of the shared housing to comply with hotel laws for that country, modified for whatever infrastructural differences there may be.

tylermenezes 8y ago

As a guest, it's sketchy because the property is usually not-well-cared-for and they've often pissed off the neighbors because they can't deal with nuisance guests.

mrgordon 8y ago
This is a gross generalization. I've stayed at many properties where the person was truly into hospitality and created a much better experience than I would get staying in someone's spare bedroom that they've never rented out before. People who host regularly often tend to leave things stocked in the house that come in handy, have maps of their favorite local restaurants and attractions, etc. whereas a small time host simply hasn't had time (or often inclination) to do those things. Professional hosts also often have much better systems for key handoff, people you can call if something goes wrong, etc.
- tptacek 8y ago
  This isn't responsive to his point. Nobody is saying you're a nuisance guest, or that you haven't met hosts who are concerned about nuisance guests. They're saying that nuisance guests are a thing that happens, which seems self-evidently true.
  - mrgordon 8y ago
    Actually I responded directly to the claim that the professional properties are "usually not-well-cared-for" which was an unsubstantiated claim that is clearly way too broad of a generalization. As far as nuisance guests, I've said elsewhere in the thread that I think the cities should not hesitate to give out large fines for recurring noise violations from one address. Party houses and frats also make a lot of noise even though they have nothing to do with vacation rentals. Banning Airbnb is a less direct solution to that problem than simply passing and enforcing noise regulations. People will just rent on Craigslist and make as much noise as they want if you don't.
    - tptacek 8y ago

tptacek 8y ago

This is a lot of words for a question that seems like it has a simple answer. Whatever the difference is between being an "Airbnb superhost" and maintaining a license to operate a bed and breakfast out of your property, that's the "sketchiness" quotient we're talking about.

mrgordon 8y ago
In many cases you cannot get a license to operate a bed and breakfast out of your property because they issue very few licenses and require various things like serving breakfast which most hosts don't do. That doesn't make vacation rentals inherently sketchy. It just means that technology has enabled a different solution for the problem then was possible before and now cities will work out to what degree they will embrace it versus trying to regulate it out of existence. Don't get me wrong, I think certain aspects need to be strictly regulated but requiring tons of red tape to rent your apartment out once a year while you go abroad is not the long term solution and is a waste of usable space. I think in the future people will laugh at how byzantine the laws were to rent out an apartment. Especially in these cities where the hotels are filled up and now people will just leave their apartments empty instead of accommodating people.
- tptacek 8y ago
  Then, there you go, that's part of the sketchiness of Airbnb: a public policy decision was made to limit the number of short-term rental places (hotels, b-n-b's, etc), and part of what Airbnb is doing is simply overriding that by overwhelming the enforcement capabilities of cities.
  - dorchadas 8y ago
    Exactly. And it's definitely contributing to the housing crises in some cities. People would rather buy apartments/houses and put them on AirBnB, instead of renting them out to the people who work and need to live in the city. I know it's definitely part of the issue in Ireland, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the case elsewhere as well.

sorokod 8y ago

I'm curious why a superhost renting a bunch of properties is "sketchy" while a corporate hotel brand with many properties is to be trusted. Not sure that "sketchy" is the adjective I'd use. The thing is that a city is not a petri dish for competing business to squeeze as much nutrients from the environment as possible. First and foremost it's a place for humans to live and thrive. That "Residents can only rent out their property for a maximum of 90 nights a year when they are not living there" is an attempt to keep them this way.

darpa_escapee 8y ago

Most hotels/motels of that size have clearly marked exits, fire sprinkler systems and are built to code. I've stayed in Airbnbs where twelve people are in an apartment meant for maybe half of that or less. I had one host, who managed/owned several properties, run an extension cord right along the rim of a bathtub so it could reach one of those dish-style space heaters they stuck in the corner of the bathroom. Neither the cord placement, the non-GFCI outlet it was plugged into, nor the type of space heater were suited for the wet, humid environment of the bathroom. To me, that's sketchy.

mrgordon 8y ago
Sounds like you should have reported that rental instead of taking it out on all vacation rentals. I can send you pictures of very sketchy hotels that I've stayed in where the bathroom was literally unusable. I still don't want to ban hotels. I give the hotel a scathing review, sometimes complain to them directly, and then I move on.
- darpa_escapee 8y ago
  > Sounds like you should have reported that rental instead of taking it out on all vacation rentals. Care to show me what you interpreted as me 'taking it out on all vacation rentals?' > I still don't want to ban hotels. I give the hotel a scathing review, sometimes complain to them directly, and then I move on. Cool? I understand that you think that I want to ban vacation rentals, but perhaps you should reread my post before responding with assumptions and non-sequiturs. Airbnbs are generally unregulated and hosts, more often than not, try to hide their business from landlords, neighbors and their local government.