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Europe's GDPR Is Killing Email Marketing, to the Disappointment of No One

51 points by ourmandave 8y ago

sattoshi 8y ago
The EU essentially forced me unsubscribe from all the emails which I didn't want anymore but was too lazy to unsubscribe myself. I am okay with this.
- ianlevesque 8y ago
  Especially the ones that required extra hoops be jumped through in the past.
  - Nullabillity 8y ago
    And without sending any "yes, this address is actually used" signals!
tomrod 8y ago
David Brin's recent book Existence explores a sort of interstellar spam that sapient species use to communicate with others. Applied to something like email marketing, it makes one wonder why advertising is such an arm's race.
sctb 8y ago
Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17324785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17324785.
dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
> Under GDPR, companies are still free to send emails to customers who have purchased a product from them in the past Are they? Of course they can't unless I explicitly allowed them to. Why would Gizmodo spread this information is beyond me. Buying something from you doesn't allow you to put me on your permanent spam list unless you received my explicit permission to do so.
- drivingmenuts 8y ago
  It may fall under the definition of "established business relationship". If you have purchased or transacted with a business within the past 18 months then there is a relationship between you and the business, under the FTC's Telemarketing Sales Rule (US law only - EU mileage may vary).
  - dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
    Yes, there is a huge difference between the US and Europe. When I buy something from an American company, they immediately try to follow up. I don't blame them, it's business as usual, but it I hate these e-mails because they're a waste of my time. Sometimes they don't even provide an opt-out link. Or, worse, they ask me to change my e-mail preferences. In Europe we haven't had this behavior for a long time. You always need to ask for consent separately in order to send marketing e-mails after the purchase. The advantage is that the people who opt in are usually excellent leads as they not only bought something for you but are also actively open to further purchases and confirmed that. So I wouldn't say the European system is worse for marketing, it's just different.
- DanBC 8y ago
  From the UK regulator, the company may be able to use "legitimate interests" to send marketing mail. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/legitimate-interests/when-can-we-rely-on-legitimate-interests/#marketing_activities https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da... GDPR does not force consent, even for marketing. And if it's not legal under GDPR it was probably already illegal for the past 15 years under PECR.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
    I read this section and it seems that e-mail communication is indeed excluded because of PECR: > If you intend to process personal data for the purposes of direct marketing by electronic means (by email, text, automated calls etc) legitimate interests may not always be an appropriate basis for processing. They even prepared a table listing marketing methods and "Emails/text messages to individuals – without ‘soft opt-in’" is marked as "not likely to be appropriate". By the way, they definie "soft opt-in" like this: > The term ‘soft opt-in’ is sometimes used to describe the rule about existing customers. The idea is that if an individual bought something from you recently, gave you their details, and did not opt out of marketing messages, they are probably happy to receive marketing from you about similar products or services even if they haven’t specifically consented. However, you must have given them a clear chance to opt out So there are quite a few (very reasonable) conditions. If I bought something from you and didn't explicitly agreed to receive marketing e-mails, you are not allowed to fill my mailbox with spam.

51 points by ourmandave 8y ago

The EU essentially forced me unsubscribe from all the emails which I didn't want anymore but was too lazy to unsubscribe myself. I am okay with this.

ianlevesque 8y ago
Especially the ones that required extra hoops be jumped through in the past.
- Nullabillity 8y ago
  And without sending any "yes, this address is actually used" signals!

tomrod 8y ago

David Brin's recent book Existence explores a sort of interstellar spam that sapient species use to communicate with others. Applied to something like email marketing, it makes one wonder why advertising is such an arm's race.

sctb 8y ago

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17324785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17324785.

dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago

> Under GDPR, companies are still free to send emails to customers who have purchased a product from them in the past Are they? Of course they can't unless I explicitly allowed them to. Why would Gizmodo spread this information is beyond me. Buying something from you doesn't allow you to put me on your permanent spam list unless you received my explicit permission to do so.

drivingmenuts 8y ago
It may fall under the definition of "established business relationship". If you have purchased or transacted with a business within the past 18 months then there is a relationship between you and the business, under the FTC's Telemarketing Sales Rule (US law only - EU mileage may vary).
- dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
  Yes, there is a huge difference between the US and Europe. When I buy something from an American company, they immediately try to follow up. I don't blame them, it's business as usual, but it I hate these e-mails because they're a waste of my time. Sometimes they don't even provide an opt-out link. Or, worse, they ask me to change my e-mail preferences. In Europe we haven't had this behavior for a long time. You always need to ask for consent separately in order to send marketing e-mails after the purchase. The advantage is that the people who opt in are usually excellent leads as they not only bought something for you but are also actively open to further purchases and confirmed that. So I wouldn't say the European system is worse for marketing, it's just different.
DanBC 8y ago
From the UK regulator, the company may be able to use "legitimate interests" to send marketing mail. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/legitimate-interests/when-can-we-rely-on-legitimate-interests/#marketing_activities https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da... GDPR does not force consent, even for marketing. And if it's not legal under GDPR it was probably already illegal for the past 15 years under PECR.
- dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
  I read this section and it seems that e-mail communication is indeed excluded because of PECR: > If you intend to process personal data for the purposes of direct marketing by electronic means (by email, text, automated calls etc) legitimate interests may not always be an appropriate basis for processing. They even prepared a table listing marketing methods and "Emails/text messages to individuals – without ‘soft opt-in’" is marked as "not likely to be appropriate". By the way, they definie "soft opt-in" like this: > The term ‘soft opt-in’ is sometimes used to describe the rule about existing customers. The idea is that if an individual bought something from you recently, gave you their details, and did not opt out of marketing messages, they are probably happy to receive marketing from you about similar products or services even if they haven’t specifically consented. However, you must have given them a clear chance to opt out So there are quite a few (very reasonable) conditions. If I bought something from you and didn't explicitly agreed to receive marketing e-mails, you are not allowed to fill my mailbox with spam.