4 ms·

Outrageous student loan debt, and the lack of means to pay for them after spending, has been an issue for at least 10 years now and has been thoroughly document

Outrageous student loan debt, and the lack of means to pay for them after spending, has been an issue for at least 10 years now and has been thoroughly documented. It shouldn't be a mystery to anyone at this point, and it's baffling why people are still taking on these large debt loads for degrees and programs which don't have a snowball's chance in hell of paying off the debt in a reasonable amount of time. My own personal experience with bad debt was my own fault, so I have a habit of blaming the person who willfully enters into debt; I opened a credit card as a young man without understanding the system, racked up huge balances, was eaten alive by interest and was forced to go into collection and settle. That effectively crushed my credit for 8 years. I did however learn a ton and was able to rebuild my credit. My children won't have to learn the hard way, unless they choose (operative word) to ignore the lessons I had to endure. So without blaming the author for their own actions and writing it off as a "you should've known better"; Is the greater problem these days of a predatory nature by lenders, ignorance (willful or not), or a complete lack of education about an education? Or perhaps D. All of the above.

dpark 8y ago
How is it baffling when you literally did the same thing with credit card debt? People are generally bad with financial decisions because they are abstract and because good decisions typically require significant delayed gratification. Realistically, many sound financial decisions require putting off gratification forever, which is a hard pill to swallow. I ended up with a decent bit of debt for stupid reasons (e.g. never filed for residency so essentially paid double for college), but was able to dig out pretty easily due to high income. Most people who make stupid decisions can’t dig themselves out easily.
- andrew_ 8y ago
  > How is it baffling when you literally did the same thing with credit card debt? I entered college when credit card companies were just starting to practice predatory sign-ups on campus and at college events. And many of the tactics they used back then have since been outlawed. That was also at a time when the wealth of information we now have in the internet did not exist. Given the myriad of channels to learn these days, it's baffling. Hell, how many different reviews do we read before making a decision on where to eat, or where to get our oil changed?
  - dpark 8y ago
    Sorry, how long ago did you enter college? Honestly the dangers of high interest rate debt have been known for millennia, anyway. This feels like a lack of self awareness. “Other people’s mistakes are their fault. My mistakes are other people’s fault too.”
  - RhysU 8y ago
    True, there was predation. But interest on a loan is an old, old concept.
Intermernet 8y ago
As much as it's tempting to blame the author for the predicament she finds herself in, the reality is that those who offer these finance arrangements know that they're offering them to people who will be beholden to them for most of their lives. This is legal, but morally abhorrent. I don't know how to stop this trend, other than to tell a whole bunch of young people that they can't afford to learn further in the US educational system.
- djrogers 8y ago
  > other than to tell a whole bunch of young people that they can't afford to learn further in the US educational system. There are tons of alternatives to funding a very expensive university through debt. Work part time, pick a cheaper school, get a bunch of credits at community college, or do all 3. And that is all without a single scholarship - of which there are many you may qualify for. It’s irresponsible to just throw your hands up and claim that there’s no other way around it...
  - girvo 8y ago
    Surely one can make an argument that having to do all of that, or rely on scholarships to get a tertiary education isn’t a great state of affairs for the future of our countries?
  - Can_Not 8y ago
    Ok but what about the people who already work one or two part time jobs, already picked the cheaper community college, already aren't buying $5 coffees from Starbucks daily, already don't eat out all the time, already don't pay for cable, already didn't buy a new iPhone this year? Assuming everyone's already well off and just living above their means isn't very helpful when education itself is the thing that's costing above most people's means.
- dpark 8y ago
  This is accurate. All the talk about how to fund college ignores the fact that some degrees are not worth it in terms of financial cost/benefit. What does an MFA get you in actual earning potential? If the benefit is extremely low, no method of funding will make financial sense except if you can convince someone else to pay for it. If you pick up $200k in student loan debt from an Ivy League school but leave with an engineering degree, you’ll probably be fine, even if that’s not really the cost effective option. If you leave school with $50k in loans and a degree that doesn’t get you a decent-earning job, crippling debt is now your life.
mijamo 8y ago
Now imagine the same about drugs. Sure you an blame people for taking bad decisions and ruining their lives, but some systems or laws seem to prevent people from taking those decisions, or limit their impact. While other do the exact opposite. The US system seems to encourage people taking those bad decisions right now. I think the combo super easy loan + no bankruptcy + expensive university + "american dream" mentality is financially deadly.

dpark 8y ago

How is it baffling when you literally did the same thing with credit card debt? People are generally bad with financial decisions because they are abstract and because good decisions typically require significant delayed gratification. Realistically, many sound financial decisions require putting off gratification forever, which is a hard pill to swallow. I ended up with a decent bit of debt for stupid reasons (e.g. never filed for residency so essentially paid double for college), but was able to dig out pretty easily due to high income. Most people who make stupid decisions can’t dig themselves out easily.

andrew_ 8y ago
> How is it baffling when you literally did the same thing with credit card debt? I entered college when credit card companies were just starting to practice predatory sign-ups on campus and at college events. And many of the tactics they used back then have since been outlawed. That was also at a time when the wealth of information we now have in the internet did not exist. Given the myriad of channels to learn these days, it's baffling. Hell, how many different reviews do we read before making a decision on where to eat, or where to get our oil changed?
- dpark 8y ago
  Sorry, how long ago did you enter college? Honestly the dangers of high interest rate debt have been known for millennia, anyway. This feels like a lack of self awareness. “Other people’s mistakes are their fault. My mistakes are other people’s fault too.”
- RhysU 8y ago
  True, there was predation. But interest on a loan is an old, old concept.

Intermernet 8y ago

As much as it's tempting to blame the author for the predicament she finds herself in, the reality is that those who offer these finance arrangements know that they're offering them to people who will be beholden to them for most of their lives. This is legal, but morally abhorrent. I don't know how to stop this trend, other than to tell a whole bunch of young people that they can't afford to learn further in the US educational system.

djrogers 8y ago
> other than to tell a whole bunch of young people that they can't afford to learn further in the US educational system. There are tons of alternatives to funding a very expensive university through debt. Work part time, pick a cheaper school, get a bunch of credits at community college, or do all 3. And that is all without a single scholarship - of which there are many you may qualify for. It’s irresponsible to just throw your hands up and claim that there’s no other way around it...
- girvo 8y ago
  Surely one can make an argument that having to do all of that, or rely on scholarships to get a tertiary education isn’t a great state of affairs for the future of our countries?
- Can_Not 8y ago
  Ok but what about the people who already work one or two part time jobs, already picked the cheaper community college, already aren't buying $5 coffees from Starbucks daily, already don't eat out all the time, already don't pay for cable, already didn't buy a new iPhone this year? Assuming everyone's already well off and just living above their means isn't very helpful when education itself is the thing that's costing above most people's means.
dpark 8y ago
This is accurate. All the talk about how to fund college ignores the fact that some degrees are not worth it in terms of financial cost/benefit. What does an MFA get you in actual earning potential? If the benefit is extremely low, no method of funding will make financial sense except if you can convince someone else to pay for it. If you pick up $200k in student loan debt from an Ivy League school but leave with an engineering degree, you’ll probably be fine, even if that’s not really the cost effective option. If you leave school with $50k in loans and a degree that doesn’t get you a decent-earning job, crippling debt is now your life.

mijamo 8y ago

Now imagine the same about drugs. Sure you an blame people for taking bad decisions and ruining their lives, but some systems or laws seem to prevent people from taking those decisions, or limit their impact. While other do the exact opposite. The US system seems to encourage people taking those bad decisions right now. I think the combo super easy loan + no bankruptcy + expensive university + "american dream" mentality is financially deadly.