5 ms·

See I hope that "expert" coders understand that 'git push' works even on non-MS controlled endpoints, and how to setup a damned wiki if need be... GitHub is st

See I hope that "expert" coders understand that 'git push' works even on non-MS controlled endpoints, and how to setup a damned wiki if need be... GitHub is stupid valuable for MS, and will make their dev tools offerings much stronger (TFS is a dog, bringing GitHub Enterprise into MS Enterprise support & sales cycle is gonna make a loooot of scratch). But the value of the GitHub community persists only so long as the community is present. MS can't start destroying Open Science, because Open Science will be open any- and everywhere. Frankly, disciplines should be creating their own community hubs and portals based on Git and the publishing standards of GitHub: leveraging GitHubs infrastructure and standards while capturing and engaging with the relevant users. That way they can always migrate and maintain the community. Besides, even cynically MS is more likely to do a bad job of community management trying to upsell related services moreso than poop on things for the sake of pooping on them. If it becomes offensive you'll have a nice window to find a superior collaboration hub.

mattmanser 8y ago
You can already use GitHub in visual studio. MS didn't have to buy GitHub to integrate with it. Pretty much the best that can happen is GitHub will now get worse as MS puts in functionality to do with their tools. The worst is they really fuck it up like they did with Skype.
- bobjordan 8y ago
  There is not much to be gained by defending Microsoft. But from my view, my appreciation for their tooling is highly correlated with my own technical maturity. I spent about a decade primarily Mac, ran several Linux servers and developed from my Mac environment. But in the last few years I have switched to surface book and a windows development environment. It does not totally suck. Especially, now that I’ve got an Ubuntu logo in my taskbar. Actually, it’s awesome. Now, I’m running our production web app on python with gevent on windows server OS using IIS with a reverse proxy. Dead simple to setup. With windows server 2019 we can even use the subsystem for Linux in production. It’s just awesome while Apple only gives a damn if I’m building IOS crap. Did I ever think I’d be doing it like this? Hell no. But it works great. To me, people that bash anything and everything Microsoft tooling leads me to believe they have a lack of technical maturity.
  - ethanwillis 8y ago
    To be fair, you have to have a high level of technical maturity to understand the Microsoft stack. The intricacy of Microsoft's software and philosophy is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of MCSE basics most of the concepts will go over the typical code monkey's head. There's also Satya Nadella's enterprise outlook, which is deftly woven into every email he sends. His signature draws from the Steve Ballmer speeches, for instance. The .NET guys understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to understand the depth of these software stacks, to realise that they're not just boilerplate - they say something deep about CRUD As a consequence people who dislike Microsoft truly ARE idiots - of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the FUD in Bill's anti-consumer catchphrase, "Embrace extend and extinguish," which itself is a cryptic reference to how Microsoft ruined consumer computing. And yes, by the way, i DO have a Microsoft logo tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the MS fanboys eyes only. And even they have to demonstrate that they love Microsoft's stack as much as I do by showing me their MS certifications beforehand. Nothing personal kids.
    - sangnoir 8y ago
      Bravo on deftly treading the fine line between fanboi-zealotry and sarcasm: I couldn't tell which it was until the very end...I hope.
      - ufo 8y ago
        It is an old copypasta http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/to-be-fair-you-have-to-have-a-very-high-iq-to-understand-rick-and-morty?full=1 http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/to-be-fair-you-have-to-have-a-...
    - Something1234 8y ago
      You're going to have to go in depth about what makes the Microsoft stack so beautiful. From the outside it looks likes it grown without a benevolent dictator to keep it in line, and there's way too many wrapper layers
      - 8y ago
- nl 8y ago
  I really don't get the hate MS gets for Skype. I used it before the acquisition and it was usually ok, and I've used it since and it's usually ok. I dont' like how I can't find some menu items because they keep moving, but this happened a lot before, too. Is it just that they didn't progress the platform? What - specifically - have they done wrong with it?
  - tejtm 8y ago
    If you and I were in a group meeting, you would get an alert stating _you_ would not be able to use the good features on this call because _I_ needed to update my skype client. Of course, only client available to me is the same exact version they bought years before as they never updated with features just bug fixes. You would have been used an unwitting tool as you helpfully mansplained how to overcome my version deficiency.
    - nl 8y ago
      That seems reasonably understandable from the technical point of view. I'd prefer to know that than the alternative of not knowing why I couldn't use some feature. If that is the limit of the problems people have with that acquisition then I really fail to understand what the problem is.
      - tejtm 8y ago
        It is not reasonable to trick your users into harassing someone who uses a platform for which there is no newer version because MS abandoned it. A more honest technical note would own up for their choice to discontinue adding features. I have long since deleted it, too many semi-competent users telling me that all you have to do is go to this site and click on this link ...
        nl 8y ago
        Well in the general case it’s hardly tricking them, right? For most platforms that is exactly what the user needs to do. But is that really the worst thing about it? Or have you heard other things? I’m a desktop Linux users but even I don’t try using Skype on Linux.
- bonesss 8y ago
  There are multiple points of integration between Visual Studio and github, yes. What there is not is a comprehensive end-to-end support for github based workflows (issues, projects, hooks, wiki-branches, releases), as first class citizens across the entire MS platform. Github Enterprise, sufficiently tailored for MS shops, presents some huge opportunities for scaling dev teams and integrating with other languages and tool chains. I believe there are also significant opportunities in academics: something like VS Code + Jupyter notebooks + deep Github integration, aligned with K-to-PHD and classroom support, strikes right at a core MS's market and would provide significant capture of key users and key metadata. These are not hurdles of a technically challenging nature, just product design, and will improve their offerings markedly. I see them as givens for their next product updates. The best that can happen here is a new breed of pre-shared, DCVS based, open source projects and learning tools. MS can't do a lot to stop that, as the tools are already available for GitLab or Atlissan or a monied interest, but MS can do a lot to enable it.

mattmanser 8y ago

You can already use GitHub in visual studio. MS didn't have to buy GitHub to integrate with it. Pretty much the best that can happen is GitHub will now get worse as MS puts in functionality to do with their tools. The worst is they really fuck it up like they did with Skype.

bobjordan 8y ago
There is not much to be gained by defending Microsoft. But from my view, my appreciation for their tooling is highly correlated with my own technical maturity. I spent about a decade primarily Mac, ran several Linux servers and developed from my Mac environment. But in the last few years I have switched to surface book and a windows development environment. It does not totally suck. Especially, now that I’ve got an Ubuntu logo in my taskbar. Actually, it’s awesome. Now, I’m running our production web app on python with gevent on windows server OS using IIS with a reverse proxy. Dead simple to setup. With windows server 2019 we can even use the subsystem for Linux in production. It’s just awesome while Apple only gives a damn if I’m building IOS crap. Did I ever think I’d be doing it like this? Hell no. But it works great. To me, people that bash anything and everything Microsoft tooling leads me to believe they have a lack of technical maturity.
- ethanwillis 8y ago
  To be fair, you have to have a high level of technical maturity to understand the Microsoft stack. The intricacy of Microsoft's software and philosophy is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of MCSE basics most of the concepts will go over the typical code monkey's head. There's also Satya Nadella's enterprise outlook, which is deftly woven into every email he sends. His signature draws from the Steve Ballmer speeches, for instance. The .NET guys understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to understand the depth of these software stacks, to realise that they're not just boilerplate - they say something deep about CRUD As a consequence people who dislike Microsoft truly ARE idiots - of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the FUD in Bill's anti-consumer catchphrase, "Embrace extend and extinguish," which itself is a cryptic reference to how Microsoft ruined consumer computing. And yes, by the way, i DO have a Microsoft logo tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the MS fanboys eyes only. And even they have to demonstrate that they love Microsoft's stack as much as I do by showing me their MS certifications beforehand. Nothing personal kids.
  - sangnoir 8y ago
    Bravo on deftly treading the fine line between fanboi-zealotry and sarcasm: I couldn't tell which it was until the very end...I hope.
    - ufo 8y ago
      It is an old copypasta http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/to-be-fair-you-have-to-have-a-very-high-iq-to-understand-rick-and-morty?full=1 http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/to-be-fair-you-have-to-have-a-...
  - Something1234 8y ago
    You're going to have to go in depth about what makes the Microsoft stack so beautiful. From the outside it looks likes it grown without a benevolent dictator to keep it in line, and there's way too many wrapper layers
    - 8y ago
nl 8y ago
I really don't get the hate MS gets for Skype. I used it before the acquisition and it was usually ok, and I've used it since and it's usually ok. I dont' like how I can't find some menu items because they keep moving, but this happened a lot before, too. Is it just that they didn't progress the platform? What - specifically - have they done wrong with it?
- tejtm 8y ago
  If you and I were in a group meeting, you would get an alert stating _you_ would not be able to use the good features on this call because _I_ needed to update my skype client. Of course, only client available to me is the same exact version they bought years before as they never updated with features just bug fixes. You would have been used an unwitting tool as you helpfully mansplained how to overcome my version deficiency.
  - nl 8y ago
    That seems reasonably understandable from the technical point of view. I'd prefer to know that than the alternative of not knowing why I couldn't use some feature. If that is the limit of the problems people have with that acquisition then I really fail to understand what the problem is.
    - tejtm 8y ago
      It is not reasonable to trick your users into harassing someone who uses a platform for which there is no newer version because MS abandoned it. A more honest technical note would own up for their choice to discontinue adding features. I have long since deleted it, too many semi-competent users telling me that all you have to do is go to this site and click on this link ...
      - nl 8y ago
        Well in the general case it’s hardly tricking them, right? For most platforms that is exactly what the user needs to do. But is that really the worst thing about it? Or have you heard other things? I’m a desktop Linux users but even I don’t try using Skype on Linux.
bonesss 8y ago
There are multiple points of integration between Visual Studio and github, yes. What there is not is a comprehensive end-to-end support for github based workflows (issues, projects, hooks, wiki-branches, releases), as first class citizens across the entire MS platform. Github Enterprise, sufficiently tailored for MS shops, presents some huge opportunities for scaling dev teams and integrating with other languages and tool chains. I believe there are also significant opportunities in academics: something like VS Code + Jupyter notebooks + deep Github integration, aligned with K-to-PHD and classroom support, strikes right at a core MS's market and would provide significant capture of key users and key metadata. These are not hurdles of a technically challenging nature, just product design, and will improve their offerings markedly. I see them as givens for their next product updates. The best that can happen here is a new breed of pre-shared, DCVS based, open source projects and learning tools. MS can't do a lot to stop that, as the tools are already available for GitLab or Atlissan or a monied interest, but MS can do a lot to enable it.