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So you don't think that there is an advantage gained by being a native speaker of a dialect a test is written in? The academic consensus is that there is. The

So you don't think that there is an advantage gained by being a native speaker of a dialect a test is written in? The academic consensus is that there is. The clearest example is that vocabulary is a large part of most standardized tests and native speakers have larger vocabularies than proficient L2 speakers.

skookumchuck 8y ago
How about the math part? Besides, if I was on a college admissions board, I'd give consideration to an L2 speaker if his verbal scores were unusually below his math scores.
- learc83 8y ago
  I'm less familiar with math testing in general, but as far as direct effects go (not something caused by language of instruction) my guess is that it would be limited to instructions and word problems.
jiminy_john 8y ago
So you want to not test people in English but in some vague universal language?! What would that be: "equality of outcome"? Propaganda?!
- learc83 8y ago
  Yes. You've correctly read between the lines to discover my hidden, unwritten argument. All standardized testing should be conducted in the universal language of interpretive dance.
  - jiminy_john 8y ago
    Solid stuff right here!
colordrops 8y ago
I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that it's not clear that the advantage is so much as to be a relevant factor. I grew up in a very poor minority neighborhood and the language the teachers used in school was the same as the ones on the standardized test, so it's not like I wasn't prepared. It's almost insulting to think that dialect matters that much considering how much exposure everyone gets to the mainstream dialect. In China they've got a standard dialect and there doesn't appear to be any advantage for those that are from the area north of Beijing where the dialect originates.
- learc83 8y ago
  How much of an impact it has is debatable, but the academic consensus is that it is relevant. If you trust your own experiences and opinions more than the current research, there isn't much I can do to convince you otherwise. >It's almost insulting to think that dialect matters that much considering how much exposure everyone gets to the mainstream dialect. Whether it's insulting is irrelevant to whether it's true. >In China they've got a standard dialect and there doesn't appear to be any advantage for those that are from the area north of Beijing where the dialect originates. I'd be interested to know what your basing this assertion on. Gaokao scores in Beijing are distorted by families who try to move there from other areas to take the test and migration in general. Combined with with relative lack of reliable data, I'm not sure how you could confidently make this claim.
  - colordrops 8y ago
    Do you have a link to the study? I'm curious what "relevant" means in this case. From the beginning I've not denied that dialect can have an effect, only that I believe it to overwhelmed by a sea of countless other factors that cause someone to succeed or fail at getting into college, and I haven't seen any data that shows that it is the prevailing factor and one that truly matters. The subtext to my comments is that this a debatable point, and I interjected because others were throwing veiled insults and calls of racism at anyone who tries to discuss this, which is an unfair way to shut conversation down.
    - 8y ago

skookumchuck 8y ago

How about the math part? Besides, if I was on a college admissions board, I'd give consideration to an L2 speaker if his verbal scores were unusually below his math scores.

learc83 8y ago
I'm less familiar with math testing in general, but as far as direct effects go (not something caused by language of instruction) my guess is that it would be limited to instructions and word problems.

jiminy_john 8y ago

So you want to not test people in English but in some vague universal language?! What would that be: "equality of outcome"? Propaganda?!

learc83 8y ago
Yes. You've correctly read between the lines to discover my hidden, unwritten argument. All standardized testing should be conducted in the universal language of interpretive dance.
- jiminy_john 8y ago
  Solid stuff right here!

colordrops 8y ago

I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that it's not clear that the advantage is so much as to be a relevant factor. I grew up in a very poor minority neighborhood and the language the teachers used in school was the same as the ones on the standardized test, so it's not like I wasn't prepared. It's almost insulting to think that dialect matters that much considering how much exposure everyone gets to the mainstream dialect. In China they've got a standard dialect and there doesn't appear to be any advantage for those that are from the area north of Beijing where the dialect originates.

learc83 8y ago
How much of an impact it has is debatable, but the academic consensus is that it is relevant. If you trust your own experiences and opinions more than the current research, there isn't much I can do to convince you otherwise. >It's almost insulting to think that dialect matters that much considering how much exposure everyone gets to the mainstream dialect. Whether it's insulting is irrelevant to whether it's true. >In China they've got a standard dialect and there doesn't appear to be any advantage for those that are from the area north of Beijing where the dialect originates. I'd be interested to know what your basing this assertion on. Gaokao scores in Beijing are distorted by families who try to move there from other areas to take the test and migration in general. Combined with with relative lack of reliable data, I'm not sure how you could confidently make this claim.
- colordrops 8y ago
  Do you have a link to the study? I'm curious what "relevant" means in this case. From the beginning I've not denied that dialect can have an effect, only that I believe it to overwhelmed by a sea of countless other factors that cause someone to succeed or fail at getting into college, and I haven't seen any data that shows that it is the prevailing factor and one that truly matters. The subtext to my comments is that this a debatable point, and I interjected because others were throwing veiled insults and calls of racism at anyone who tries to discuss this, which is an unfair way to shut conversation down.
  - 8y ago