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CopperheadOS update: Developer suspended from Reddit

135 points by petethomas 8y ago

lainga 8y ago
How did the CEO do this? What strings do you pull to get someone banned for Reddit whistleblowing? Who on the Reddit staff might "fence" his request?
- agumonkey 8y ago
  The story might be more involved than this, or maybe he managed to convince reddit staff that he has alternate interpretation of the events and the believed him.
- jmull 8y ago
  Emotions seem to be running pretty high. It's possible the developer did something that left Reddit little choice but to suspend him.
- adjkant 8y ago
  https://old.reddit.com/r/redditrequest/comments/8ra5b5/requesting_rcopperheados_only_mod_is_suspended/e0ppz8o/ https://old.reddit.com/r/redditrequest/comments/8ra5b5/reque...
- michaelmrose 8y ago
  Lets see the ceo of copperheadOS wants to pretend the sole developer who did all the useful work is a peon he can fire instead of a partner and the leadership of reddit likely identifies to a greater degree with the pointy haired boss than the nerd.
djschnei 8y ago
Out of the loop here... What whistle did he blow? Anyone have a tldr?
- shittyadmin 8y ago
  Details and discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17289536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17289536 EDIT: Further details as I'm reading... Big reddit post from the developer here: https://www.reddit.com/r/CopperheadOS/comments/8oq1l3/cos_future_questions_and_concerns_from_a_customer/e06a4cr/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CopperheadOS/comments/8oq1l3/cos_fu... It seems there was a falling out between the developer and CEO over how the business was run - the CEO wanted to license Android security improvements to others, the developer wanted to go make custom hardware and sell secure devices with an entirely non-Linux based stack that still could run Android apps. Seems like reddit has now suspended the developers account, likely due to threats of a libel lawsuit from the CEO... seems like a really bad move on reddit's part, but they're no strangers to bad moves in my book.
- AdmiralAsshat 8y ago
  CopperheadOS was spearheaded by two people (to my understanding): the founder, and the lead developer. They had a falling out. The developer felt that the founder had compromised their ideals in order to make money (how this was done has not been detailed). The founder told the developer that he's out. The developer, in turn, deleted the signing keys so that no new software can be published under the CopperheadOS name. The developer alleges now that the founder has gotten Reddit to delete his (the developer's) account.
  - bhouston 8y ago
    I thought both were founders or that the developer is actually the founder and the other guy was brought in to run the business side.
    - icebraining 8y ago
      They are both co-founders with 50% of the company each - at least that's what the dev said on Twitter.
      - toyg 8y ago
magissima 8y ago
I can't believe anyone who goes by a name as trustworthy as "darknetj" could be involved in shady business.
bhouston 8y ago
Nothing will be left here but ruins.
- Analemma_ 8y ago
  History is full of co-creators having a fallout and then being willing to burn whatever they made to the ground rather than give an inch to the other guy. Sadly, this looks like it will be yet another example.
troyvoy88 8y ago
The damage done to this project is done. No coming back from this. Base has been compromised.
twblalock 8y ago
As far as I can tell, both the CEO and the developer have behaved very unprofessionally during this whole affair, airing their grievances and their dirty laundry on public forums. I don’t think I would trust either of them to run a company or maintain a trustworthy codebase. They should consider the damage they are doing to their reputations and start acting like adults.
- x30xxx 8y ago
  Could you explain this (honest question)? Why would you trust a Machiavellian (open face/closed thoughts) more than someone actually stating his opinion in public?
- yegortimoshenko 8y ago
  I'm not sure what you expect from the developer, to just take it? He doesn't have power in the company because even though he's a 50% shareholder, he's not on the board of directors.
  - foobarchu 8y ago
    I mean, personally, I hold them both to the same standard of professionalism, as they were both "c-levels" within their company. He's more than a developer, at that point, so airing of dirty laundry comes off as kind of a petty attempt at "bringing the other guy down with me". Especially the times where he was posting direct snippets from their private emails, then a sinister sounding summary of the rest (but not the actual content of the rest, meaning he's probably twisting some words). I think both sides are acting really shitty here, I wouldn't want to partner with either of them in any future endeavor.
- gkya 8y ago
  I have not yet read the post, but this trend of striking people off for their mistakes gets on my nerves. The morning I was reading an article on NYT comparing Einstein's remarks from his visits to Asian countries, which are rather racist, and his standing with the black in the American racial conflict. Tge possibility that he discovered the falsehood of his previous thoughts, if we take them as racist ones, and changed his ideas and stance is completely ignored. We make mistakes, sometimes we learn better.
adjkant 8y ago
Looks like more than just the two looped in now: https://old.reddit.com/r/redditrequest/comments/8ra5b5/requesting_rcopperheados_only_mod_is_suspended/ https://old.reddit.com/r/redditrequest/comments/8ra5b5/reque... Edit: The repo is also private now https://github.com/CopperheadOS https://github.com/CopperheadOS http://archive.is/rOnWi http://archive.is/rOnWi
- adjkant 8y ago
  Update - A community member tried to document the happenings of the events and the CEO of CopperheadOS sent a DMCA request to take it down. https://raw.githubusercontent.com/yegortimoshenko/copperhead-takeover/master/0e8ab5e5-ac2f-4a73-80a0-77652162e15f.png https://raw.githubusercontent.com/yegortimoshenko/copperhead...
  - DanBC 8y ago
    Wow, that surely meets the very high bar DMCA sets for false reports, right?
    - yegortimoshenko 8y ago
      This is not a valid DMCA claim, point one doesn't even mention copyright. I sent a counter-claim, then tried to republish the repo. GitLab said me I will only be able to republish in 10 days if I don't receive a response, and also that they might ban me if I try to republish it again without waiting for due process.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    I thought DMCA was a US thing?
- yegortimoshenko 8y ago
  Repos have been moved to http://github.com/AndroidHardening http://github.com/AndroidHardening.
djsumdog 8y ago
I don't think it's over for CopperheadOS, but it is over for that name. Like Cyanogen changing to LineageOS, the dev who deleted his signing keys will probably just foke a new code base with a new name. Obviously it won't be as peaceful a transition Cyanogen->Lineage, but that's my prediction for this Android variant in the next few months.
- milcron 8y ago
  Daniel sounds rather burnt out, and also needs to find a new job. I wouldn't expect updates at the same pace.
  - nextos 8y ago
    Yes, which is quite sad both because of the amount of effort put into this and because there's nothing quite similar to migrate to. CopperheadOS was a bit unique.
- ReverseCold 8y ago
  > the dev who deleted his signing keys will probably just foke a new code base with a new name "I can't continue CopperheadOS without Copperhead. I need to think about what my options are in terms of finding a new job. [...] I'm not starting many things over again from scratch and I'm not founding a new company." - strcat I offered to help him try and find funding to work on it without copperhead, but that's what he said.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
mindslight 8y ago
Well I do have to thank them for blowing this up now, as I'm in the market for a new pocket tracker. It seems like the least-worst option is Samsung Exynos -> Lineage -> No GoogleCrutches -> F-droid. Still a fucking dumpster fire. Alas, here's to hoping pmOS (or the like) actually goes somewhere.
- seba_dos1 8y ago
  If you want to use Android, don't forget about microG. There's even their Lineage fork: https://lineage.microg.org/ https://lineage.microg.org/
  - mindslight 8y ago
    Well I don't really want to use Android. What I want is a long-battery-life GNU computer that fits in my pocket, with an optional chorded keyboard. Which could then run any needed Android apps in an untrusted vm [0]. Alas. I'll have to look into microG. My plan was just to avoid attractive nuisance apps on my everyday phone, and stick with stuff from F-droid. But then of course eg traveling puts one in a different mode of just needing to get a problem solved on the go [1]. It is a bit worrying that microG's first listed feature is augmenting perfectly-fine GPS location. The split with Lineage seems annoying, for both practical and long term considerations. From a quick reading, it seems like Lineage is being stubborn and preserving the paradigm where Google is trusted more than the purported owner of the device. Seems like one would definitely have to use a VPN with microG, lest Google continue to infer social metadata from whatever IP address (ie wifi network) one was connecting from [2]. [0] I wouldn't mind say running Waze for the highway part of routine trips (with a nonce account of course), to report highway robbers and other hazards. [1] Which is how these surveillance companies get us over the barrel, but I digress. [2] It seems like the best solution here would be some sort of headless "wifi condom" that would connect to 3g/4g/wifi networks, do the VPN stuff, and present a single constant wifi network.
    - milcron 8y ago
      >Well I don't really want to use Android. What I want is a long-battery-life GNU computer that fits in my pocket. Librem5 is definitely something to watch: https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ I'm also watching the Pyra, but development is super slow: https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/ https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/
diehunde 8y ago
can anyone give the short version of what happened? I'm not familiarized with CopperheadOS and I like this kind of drama
evadne 8y ago
$ curl -s "https://api.github.com/orgs/AndroidHardening/repos?per_page=200" | ruby -rubygems -e "require 'json'; JSON.load(STDIN.read).each { |repo| puts \"git clone #{repo['ssh_url']} android-hardening-#{repo['name'].gsub(/(.)([A-Z])/,'\1-\2').downcase.gsub(/[^a-zA-Z0-9]/, '-').gsub(/-(-+)/, '-')}\" }" | parallel -j 8 '{}'
- asdsa5325 8y ago
  What is this?
  - bribroder 8y ago
    They want you to clone all of the repos belonging to https://github.com/androidhardening https://github.com/androidhardening, for some reason... I suppose they think it will be taken down by GitHub lawyers?
- ReverseCold 8y ago
  That's a useful snippet. I wanted to download all the repos of a different organization the other day. Thanks!

135 points by petethomas 8y ago

How did the CEO do this? What strings do you pull to get someone banned for Reddit whistleblowing? Who on the Reddit staff might "fence" his request?

agumonkey 8y ago
The story might be more involved than this, or maybe he managed to convince reddit staff that he has alternate interpretation of the events and the believed him.
jmull 8y ago
Emotions seem to be running pretty high. It's possible the developer did something that left Reddit little choice but to suspend him.
adjkant 8y ago
https://old.reddit.com/r/redditrequest/comments/8ra5b5/requesting_rcopperheados_only_mod_is_suspended/e0ppz8o/ https://old.reddit.com/r/redditrequest/comments/8ra5b5/reque...
michaelmrose 8y ago
Lets see the ceo of copperheadOS wants to pretend the sole developer who did all the useful work is a peon he can fire instead of a partner and the leadership of reddit likely identifies to a greater degree with the pointy haired boss than the nerd.

djschnei 8y ago

Out of the loop here... What whistle did he blow? Anyone have a tldr?

shittyadmin 8y ago
Details and discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17289536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17289536 EDIT: Further details as I'm reading... Big reddit post from the developer here: https://www.reddit.com/r/CopperheadOS/comments/8oq1l3/cos_future_questions_and_concerns_from_a_customer/e06a4cr/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CopperheadOS/comments/8oq1l3/cos_fu... It seems there was a falling out between the developer and CEO over how the business was run - the CEO wanted to license Android security improvements to others, the developer wanted to go make custom hardware and sell secure devices with an entirely non-Linux based stack that still could run Android apps. Seems like reddit has now suspended the developers account, likely due to threats of a libel lawsuit from the CEO... seems like a really bad move on reddit's part, but they're no strangers to bad moves in my book.
AdmiralAsshat 8y ago
CopperheadOS was spearheaded by two people (to my understanding): the founder, and the lead developer. They had a falling out. The developer felt that the founder had compromised their ideals in order to make money (how this was done has not been detailed). The founder told the developer that he's out. The developer, in turn, deleted the signing keys so that no new software can be published under the CopperheadOS name. The developer alleges now that the founder has gotten Reddit to delete his (the developer's) account.
- bhouston 8y ago
  I thought both were founders or that the developer is actually the founder and the other guy was brought in to run the business side.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    They are both co-founders with 50% of the company each - at least that's what the dev said on Twitter.
    - toyg 8y ago

magissima 8y ago

I can't believe anyone who goes by a name as trustworthy as "darknetj" could be involved in shady business.

bhouston 8y ago

Nothing will be left here but ruins.

Analemma_ 8y ago
History is full of co-creators having a fallout and then being willing to burn whatever they made to the ground rather than give an inch to the other guy. Sadly, this looks like it will be yet another example.

troyvoy88 8y ago

The damage done to this project is done. No coming back from this. Base has been compromised.

twblalock 8y ago

As far as I can tell, both the CEO and the developer have behaved very unprofessionally during this whole affair, airing their grievances and their dirty laundry on public forums. I don’t think I would trust either of them to run a company or maintain a trustworthy codebase. They should consider the damage they are doing to their reputations and start acting like adults.

x30xxx 8y ago
Could you explain this (honest question)? Why would you trust a Machiavellian (open face/closed thoughts) more than someone actually stating his opinion in public?
yegortimoshenko 8y ago
I'm not sure what you expect from the developer, to just take it? He doesn't have power in the company because even though he's a 50% shareholder, he's not on the board of directors.
- foobarchu 8y ago
  I mean, personally, I hold them both to the same standard of professionalism, as they were both "c-levels" within their company. He's more than a developer, at that point, so airing of dirty laundry comes off as kind of a petty attempt at "bringing the other guy down with me". Especially the times where he was posting direct snippets from their private emails, then a sinister sounding summary of the rest (but not the actual content of the rest, meaning he's probably twisting some words). I think both sides are acting really shitty here, I wouldn't want to partner with either of them in any future endeavor.
gkya 8y ago
I have not yet read the post, but this trend of striking people off for their mistakes gets on my nerves. The morning I was reading an article on NYT comparing Einstein's remarks from his visits to Asian countries, which are rather racist, and his standing with the black in the American racial conflict. Tge possibility that he discovered the falsehood of his previous thoughts, if we take them as racist ones, and changed his ideas and stance is completely ignored. We make mistakes, sometimes we learn better.

adjkant 8y ago

Looks like more than just the two looped in now: https://old.reddit.com/r/redditrequest/comments/8ra5b5/requesting_rcopperheados_only_mod_is_suspended/ https://old.reddit.com/r/redditrequest/comments/8ra5b5/reque... Edit: The repo is also private now https://github.com/CopperheadOS https://github.com/CopperheadOS http://archive.is/rOnWi http://archive.is/rOnWi

adjkant 8y ago
Update - A community member tried to document the happenings of the events and the CEO of CopperheadOS sent a DMCA request to take it down. https://raw.githubusercontent.com/yegortimoshenko/copperhead-takeover/master/0e8ab5e5-ac2f-4a73-80a0-77652162e15f.png https://raw.githubusercontent.com/yegortimoshenko/copperhead...
- DanBC 8y ago
  Wow, that surely meets the very high bar DMCA sets for false reports, right?
  - yegortimoshenko 8y ago
    This is not a valid DMCA claim, point one doesn't even mention copyright. I sent a counter-claim, then tried to republish the repo. GitLab said me I will only be able to republish in 10 days if I don't receive a response, and also that they might ban me if I try to republish it again without waiting for due process.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  I thought DMCA was a US thing?
yegortimoshenko 8y ago
Repos have been moved to http://github.com/AndroidHardening http://github.com/AndroidHardening.

djsumdog 8y ago

I don't think it's over for CopperheadOS, but it is over for that name. Like Cyanogen changing to LineageOS, the dev who deleted his signing keys will probably just foke a new code base with a new name. Obviously it won't be as peaceful a transition Cyanogen->Lineage, but that's my prediction for this Android variant in the next few months.

milcron 8y ago
Daniel sounds rather burnt out, and also needs to find a new job. I wouldn't expect updates at the same pace.
- nextos 8y ago
  Yes, which is quite sad both because of the amount of effort put into this and because there's nothing quite similar to migrate to. CopperheadOS was a bit unique.
ReverseCold 8y ago
> the dev who deleted his signing keys will probably just foke a new code base with a new name "I can't continue CopperheadOS without Copperhead. I need to think about what my options are in terms of finding a new job. [...] I'm not starting many things over again from scratch and I'm not founding a new company." - strcat I offered to help him try and find funding to work on it without copperhead, but that's what he said.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

mindslight 8y ago

Well I do have to thank them for blowing this up now, as I'm in the market for a new pocket tracker. It seems like the least-worst option is Samsung Exynos -> Lineage -> No GoogleCrutches -> F-droid. Still a fucking dumpster fire. Alas, here's to hoping pmOS (or the like) actually goes somewhere.

seba_dos1 8y ago
If you want to use Android, don't forget about microG. There's even their Lineage fork: https://lineage.microg.org/ https://lineage.microg.org/
- mindslight 8y ago
  Well I don't really want to use Android. What I want is a long-battery-life GNU computer that fits in my pocket, with an optional chorded keyboard. Which could then run any needed Android apps in an untrusted vm [0]. Alas. I'll have to look into microG. My plan was just to avoid attractive nuisance apps on my everyday phone, and stick with stuff from F-droid. But then of course eg traveling puts one in a different mode of just needing to get a problem solved on the go [1]. It is a bit worrying that microG's first listed feature is augmenting perfectly-fine GPS location. The split with Lineage seems annoying, for both practical and long term considerations. From a quick reading, it seems like Lineage is being stubborn and preserving the paradigm where Google is trusted more than the purported owner of the device. Seems like one would definitely have to use a VPN with microG, lest Google continue to infer social metadata from whatever IP address (ie wifi network) one was connecting from [2]. [0] I wouldn't mind say running Waze for the highway part of routine trips (with a nonce account of course), to report highway robbers and other hazards. [1] Which is how these surveillance companies get us over the barrel, but I digress. [2] It seems like the best solution here would be some sort of headless "wifi condom" that would connect to 3g/4g/wifi networks, do the VPN stuff, and present a single constant wifi network.
  - milcron 8y ago
    >Well I don't really want to use Android. What I want is a long-battery-life GNU computer that fits in my pocket. Librem5 is definitely something to watch: https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ I'm also watching the Pyra, but development is super slow: https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/ https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/

diehunde 8y ago

can anyone give the short version of what happened? I'm not familiarized with CopperheadOS and I like this kind of drama

evadne 8y ago

$ curl -s "https://api.github.com/orgs/AndroidHardening/repos?per_page=200" | ruby -rubygems -e "require 'json'; JSON.load(STDIN.read).each { |repo| puts \"git clone #{repo['ssh_url']} android-hardening-#{repo['name'].gsub(/(.)([A-Z])/,'\1-\2').downcase.gsub(/[^a-zA-Z0-9]/, '-').gsub(/-(-+)/, '-')}\" }" | parallel -j 8 '{}'

asdsa5325 8y ago
What is this?
- bribroder 8y ago
  They want you to clone all of the repos belonging to https://github.com/androidhardening https://github.com/androidhardening, for some reason... I suppose they think it will be taken down by GitHub lawyers?
ReverseCold 8y ago
That's a useful snippet. I wanted to download all the repos of a different organization the other day. Thanks!