4 ms·

What's wrong with working the corporate world, and moonlighting your SaaS business? If it ends up taking off, then quit. I don't understand why it has to be eit

What's wrong with working the corporate world, and moonlighting your SaaS business? If it ends up taking off, then quit. I don't understand why it has to be either or. I run multiple side gigs, while keeping the safe corporate job, for now.

feocco 8y ago
I think energy would be the answer for many people. Seems easy to become demotivated from corporate work and let that leak into your side projects. Not that I disagree with you. But I've run into the problem myself. I think what you state is probably the best option though. Just gotta get life in order enough to avoid the energy issue.
- mikeymz 8y ago
  Energy or time. If you have a family you probably don't have time for side gigs
aardvark291 8y ago
If your side-project is at all related to your day job, this most likely runs afoul of your employment agreement and IP considerations. Typically, your employer claims ownership of all IP you generate that pertains to your work or its business. For example, if you work at Google, I think it's essentially impossible to simultaneously work on any other side project that you wish to commercialize that will not be owned by Google.
- bad_good_guy 8y ago
  I can't imagine a case like that would ever hold up, unless you were working on company time or machines.
  - geofft 8y ago
    I can't afford as many lawyers as Google can. Do you have examples of cases where a Google-style IP agreement was ruled unenforceable when someone was moonlighting on something that was in the same field of business as some other part of the company (but unrelated to their own day job)?
    - riku_iki 8y ago
      From another hand there are thousands of ex-googlers left company to engage in startups, and Google likely doesn't have enough lawyers to go after each of them..
      - geofft 8y ago
        Left to join/found a startup is different from working simultaneously at both.
        riku_iki 8y ago
        Yes, but Google need some resources to monitor and research who exactly left to found, and who was working simultaneously at both with conflict of company interests.
      - aardvark291 8y ago
        You're not arguing that it's legal; you're arguing that you're unlikely to get caught. That's different.
- overcast 8y ago
  Baloney, unless you're using corporate resources to get it done, they don't own work you do outside of working hours. No judge would ever uphold that. There are tons of Google / Facebook / whatever employees that build software outside of work.
  - dasmoth 8y ago
    Depends on the jurisdiction. California is reputed to be relatively side-project friendly in this regard. Other US states less so. Likewise UK (which is a factor in why I’m on the way out of my current gig in a couple of weeks...)
  - tokyodude 8y ago
    That's not my understanding. At least in California AFAIK the law says exactly what the poster above said which is that the company owns work related their area of business even outside work hours and not on company equipment. I always think of it this way. You're at dinner (ie, off company time). While a dinner you think of a solution for something at work. Do you own that solution? Can you charge the company $$$$$ to sell them this solution you came up with outside company hours? If yes then there's an incentive for you to never think on company time. If no then it seems pretty clear there's a spectrum from clearly related to the company's area of business to absolutely not related to the company's area of business. If you work at Facebook and on the side you design a new IoT coffee maker that's probably on the unrelated side. If you work at Facebook and on the side make a new social networking site probably on the absolutely related side. If you want to be safe rather than wait for a court to decide get it in writing. At least when I was at Google they offered that service. You could bring them the idea and they'd tell you if it was related or not and if not give you a signed contract saying they officially had no interest in your outside project.
  - aardvark291 8y ago
    Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1969979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1969979
- robodale 8y ago
  Wrong. You will have signed an Intellectual Property Assignment Agreement for anything like you mention to be enforceable. My advice: if you want to build something on the side and are presented with a legal doc like I mentioned above...walk away.
  - aardvark291 8y ago
    > You will have signed an Intellectual Property Assignment Agreement for anything like you mention to be enforceable Yes, and signing this agreement is a condition of employment.
anonymous5133 8y ago
That works if you have a corporate job that has work life balance. That way you can do both. I see lots of corp jobs that tend to dominate people's lives.
a13n 8y ago
Good for you! A load of people struggle with this, and I think you're downplaying how hard it is for them. It takes a load of energy to work a full-time job, then come home and work on your side gig. I used to come home from work and not have anything left in the tank. I couldn't imagine working on a project alongside my current startup without sacrificing growth. It's also a big social sacrifice. People have families, friends, roommates, etc to come home to. That can cause loneliness, and sometimes you'd just rather hang out with people than work. There's also a lot to learn as a software engineer launching a SaaS company. Sales and marketing is pretty foreign to most engineers. It's hard to learn that on your own, in your spare time, without spending years doing it.
- overcast 8y ago
  I don't see how quitting your job to jump into something you've not even built is going to help any of those reasons. Sure you'll have more energy to devote to it, but now it will sapped away by the stress of having no choice except being successful in your venture. Steady paychecks are a good thing.
  - a13n 8y ago
    The stress of having no choice except being successful in your venture can be a huge forcing function / motivator. Steady paychecks are comfortable. Comfort isn't motivating for me.
- gremlinsinc 8y ago
  My solution is... make freelancing my business for awhile (it sometimes works), and it's sort of it's own business, but I still answer to the clients (the boss), I use the money from feast-cycles to buy me time to work on side projects/SaaS ideas. If the side-project thing never works out, I'd like to turn into an agency, and hire other devs to do the dev work and move more into project management and running the business.
madeuptempacct 8y ago
My biggest concern is sneaky, vaguely "the company owns" everything agreements, even when the HR department/owners tell you "Oh, it's just for work-related stuff". I have nightmares about this.
mattnewton 8y ago
I tried this and ended up burnt out and sucking at both. It also took a personal toll on relationships with friends and was just too much to juggle. Your side gig better be light, or your office job unambitious and coast-able for this to work.
yazan94 8y ago
How does your full time job's contract deal with side businesses? I'm always wary of starting one because my company requires a lot of paperwork and approval and running it by legal, HR, Joe Shmoe, etc. to do something on the side
softwarefounder 8y ago
This is a good way to start a consulting business as well. Do it all as side work, wait for that bigger client/contract, and then do your own thing.
adamnemecek 8y ago
I tried this. Building shit takes very long. When employed, you might have like four shit working hours a day plus weekends however the progress tends to be very slow.

feocco 8y ago

I think energy would be the answer for many people. Seems easy to become demotivated from corporate work and let that leak into your side projects. Not that I disagree with you. But I've run into the problem myself. I think what you state is probably the best option though. Just gotta get life in order enough to avoid the energy issue.

mikeymz 8y ago
Energy or time. If you have a family you probably don't have time for side gigs

aardvark291 8y ago

If your side-project is at all related to your day job, this most likely runs afoul of your employment agreement and IP considerations. Typically, your employer claims ownership of all IP you generate that pertains to your work or its business. For example, if you work at Google, I think it's essentially impossible to simultaneously work on any other side project that you wish to commercialize that will not be owned by Google.

bad_good_guy 8y ago
I can't imagine a case like that would ever hold up, unless you were working on company time or machines.
- geofft 8y ago
  I can't afford as many lawyers as Google can. Do you have examples of cases where a Google-style IP agreement was ruled unenforceable when someone was moonlighting on something that was in the same field of business as some other part of the company (but unrelated to their own day job)?
  - riku_iki 8y ago
    From another hand there are thousands of ex-googlers left company to engage in startups, and Google likely doesn't have enough lawyers to go after each of them..
    - geofft 8y ago
      Left to join/found a startup is different from working simultaneously at both.
      - riku_iki 8y ago
        Yes, but Google need some resources to monitor and research who exactly left to found, and who was working simultaneously at both with conflict of company interests.
    - aardvark291 8y ago
      You're not arguing that it's legal; you're arguing that you're unlikely to get caught. That's different.
overcast 8y ago
Baloney, unless you're using corporate resources to get it done, they don't own work you do outside of working hours. No judge would ever uphold that. There are tons of Google / Facebook / whatever employees that build software outside of work.
- dasmoth 8y ago
  Depends on the jurisdiction. California is reputed to be relatively side-project friendly in this regard. Other US states less so. Likewise UK (which is a factor in why I’m on the way out of my current gig in a couple of weeks...)
- tokyodude 8y ago
  That's not my understanding. At least in California AFAIK the law says exactly what the poster above said which is that the company owns work related their area of business even outside work hours and not on company equipment. I always think of it this way. You're at dinner (ie, off company time). While a dinner you think of a solution for something at work. Do you own that solution? Can you charge the company $$$$$ to sell them this solution you came up with outside company hours? If yes then there's an incentive for you to never think on company time. If no then it seems pretty clear there's a spectrum from clearly related to the company's area of business to absolutely not related to the company's area of business. If you work at Facebook and on the side you design a new IoT coffee maker that's probably on the unrelated side. If you work at Facebook and on the side make a new social networking site probably on the absolutely related side. If you want to be safe rather than wait for a court to decide get it in writing. At least when I was at Google they offered that service. You could bring them the idea and they'd tell you if it was related or not and if not give you a signed contract saying they officially had no interest in your outside project.
- aardvark291 8y ago
  Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1969979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1969979
robodale 8y ago
Wrong. You will have signed an Intellectual Property Assignment Agreement for anything like you mention to be enforceable. My advice: if you want to build something on the side and are presented with a legal doc like I mentioned above...walk away.
- aardvark291 8y ago
  > You will have signed an Intellectual Property Assignment Agreement for anything like you mention to be enforceable Yes, and signing this agreement is a condition of employment.

anonymous5133 8y ago

That works if you have a corporate job that has work life balance. That way you can do both. I see lots of corp jobs that tend to dominate people's lives.

a13n 8y ago

Good for you! A load of people struggle with this, and I think you're downplaying how hard it is for them. It takes a load of energy to work a full-time job, then come home and work on your side gig. I used to come home from work and not have anything left in the tank. I couldn't imagine working on a project alongside my current startup without sacrificing growth. It's also a big social sacrifice. People have families, friends, roommates, etc to come home to. That can cause loneliness, and sometimes you'd just rather hang out with people than work. There's also a lot to learn as a software engineer launching a SaaS company. Sales and marketing is pretty foreign to most engineers. It's hard to learn that on your own, in your spare time, without spending years doing it.

overcast 8y ago
I don't see how quitting your job to jump into something you've not even built is going to help any of those reasons. Sure you'll have more energy to devote to it, but now it will sapped away by the stress of having no choice except being successful in your venture. Steady paychecks are a good thing.
- a13n 8y ago
  The stress of having no choice except being successful in your venture can be a huge forcing function / motivator. Steady paychecks are comfortable. Comfort isn't motivating for me.
gremlinsinc 8y ago
My solution is... make freelancing my business for awhile (it sometimes works), and it's sort of it's own business, but I still answer to the clients (the boss), I use the money from feast-cycles to buy me time to work on side projects/SaaS ideas. If the side-project thing never works out, I'd like to turn into an agency, and hire other devs to do the dev work and move more into project management and running the business.

madeuptempacct 8y ago

My biggest concern is sneaky, vaguely "the company owns" everything agreements, even when the HR department/owners tell you "Oh, it's just for work-related stuff". I have nightmares about this.

mattnewton 8y ago

I tried this and ended up burnt out and sucking at both. It also took a personal toll on relationships with friends and was just too much to juggle. Your side gig better be light, or your office job unambitious and coast-able for this to work.

yazan94 8y ago

How does your full time job's contract deal with side businesses? I'm always wary of starting one because my company requires a lot of paperwork and approval and running it by legal, HR, Joe Shmoe, etc. to do something on the side

softwarefounder 8y ago

This is a good way to start a consulting business as well. Do it all as side work, wait for that bigger client/contract, and then do your own thing.

adamnemecek 8y ago

I tried this. Building shit takes very long. When employed, you might have like four shit working hours a day plus weekends however the progress tends to be very slow.