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From the horse's mouth: “We could fill our class twice over with valedictorians,” Harvard President Drew Gilpin Faust told an audience at the Aspen Ideas F

From the horse's mouth: “We could fill our class twice over with valedictorians,” Harvard President Drew Gilpin Faust told an audience at the Aspen Ideas Festival, sponsored by the Aspen Institute and The Atlantic, on Monday. That means admissions officers rely on intangibles like interesting essays or particularly unusual recommendations to decide who comprises the 5.9 percent of applicants who get in. Faust's top tip for raising a Harvard man or woman: “Make your children interesting!” For parents and students alike, that’s both good news and bad news. The bad news is that of course it’s much easier to say that than to actually make it happen, though Faust recommended encouraging children to follow their passions as a way to develop an interesting personality. It’s much easier to complete a checklist, however daunting, than to actually be interesting.[1] [1] How to Get Into Harvard https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/06/how-to-get-into-harvard/373726/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/06/how-to...

mlthoughts2018 8y ago
“Make your children interesting,” Faust said, while rubbing her thumb against her index and middle fingers and winking at the audience.
- ythn 8y ago
  I thought it was funny
- JackFr 8y ago
  The thing is Harvard doesn't need your money. If your non-legacy family has the resources to make a big enough donation to move to move the needle, your likely to either: 1) get in anyway just based on who you are, or 2) not really care whether you go to Harvard or not because you're the scion of generational wealth.
  - mlthoughts2018 8y ago
    I think this is incorrect. It reminds me of The Simpsons' joke about Bill Gates, ("buy him out boys ... what, did you think I got rich by writing a bunch of checks?"). Harvard doesn't need anybody's money, but they sure aren't going to use endowment money to make things free. They want your money, regardless of whether or not they need it, whether it's a huge status-signaling donation or a drop in the ocean semester's worth of tuition. They absolutely are trying to optimize how to get that money, now and in the future. I also think you underestimate how much big scions of generational wealth compete for status symbols like Harvard degrees. Once things become decoupled from money, that type of status signaling only increases in importance, lending legitimacy to the children of foreign rulers and diplomats, acting as a currency to normalize political relations with western countries or between corporations with vastly different political party affiliations. Harvard sells status, and absolutely is looking at how to monetize that. If offering a pittance of tuition relief to underrepresented groups helps maintain their entrenched brand status, they'll do it because of the long term effect on their ability to monetize reputation, not in spite of. It also reminds me of how Harvard absolutely hounds graduates for donations, despite utterly not needing them by comparison to what Harvard Management Corporation does. Mike Reiss (Simpsons writer and Harvard alum) skewered this in [0], saying among other things, > "Harvard is like a bum who starts bugging you for spare change on the bus. And then follows you around for the rest of your life. Oh, and that bum already has $40 billion in the bank." [0]: < https://features.thecrimson.com/2014/fm-comedy-issue/article/mike-reiss-oxymorons/ https://features.thecrimson.com/2014/fm-comedy-issue/article... >
    - perl4ever 8y ago
      "Harvard doesn't need anybody's money, but they sure aren't going to use endowment money to make things free." I thought Harvard did make it essentially free to attend if your parents have a middle class income.
      - mlthoughts2018 8y ago
        Around 20% don’t pay tuition I believe. But keep in mind that Harvard tilts heavy toward grad student population, and selects heavily for students that win fellowships and this brings in outside money (that is how I got to attend) and master’s students who typically pay full tuition. Among my PhD cohort, it was a common joke to say that 1 graduate student was funding X free undergrads in the department (given that we were all supported fully, including insurance, by outside funding). 20% of undergrads going tuition-free is just part of Harvard’s marketing budget. It’s not philanthropy, just the cost of doing business if your business is elite status signaling.
ardent_uno 8y ago
Except being a URM (under represented minority) individual is one of the most beneficial factors for admission at elite colleges. The statistics clearly show this.
- dnomad 8y ago
  The "statistics" don't show any such thing. You do have to admire the intense racial resentment at work here. There's no evidence at all that these Asian Americans aren't boring cookie-cutter kids when compared to the broader pool of applicants. The headline literally reads 'Harvard admissions have a broader perspective than Alumni interviewers' ... duh. But this non-story is enough to summon up all sorts of wild accusations and intense paranoia that somehow, somewhere the blacks are being given an unfair advantage.
  - ardent_uno 8y ago
    Of course they do. Consider this research: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/04/09/new-research-how-elite-colleges-make-admissions-decisions https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/04/09/new-research-... Among elite Universities that initially do a holistic review of applicants to narrow down the applicant pool, URM status is viewed as the most important factor for an applicant by 42% of the universities, equal to the number of schools that view "exceptional talent" as the most important factor. Being a URM is basically equivalent to being an "exceptionally talented" non-URM in the eyes of many elite colleges' admissions boards. Look up average SAT scores of different ethnic groups admitted to elite colleges as well. The disparity is glaring. Now, we can argue that giving URM's a leg up in admissions is justified. I'm willing to have that discussion. But let's be realistic about the facts here.
    - dnomad 8y ago
      > Look up average SAT scores of different ethnic groups admitted to elite colleges as well. The disparity is glaring. Yes, everybody appeals to SAT scores. SAT scores are easily gamed. That's why more and more colleges are deprioritizing or abandoning them completely. What American colleges are increasingly uninterested in are excellent test-takers. Nobody is persuaded that students who are able to grind out excellent numbers (usually with the help of an army of private tutors) will actually add anything new to the university. This "anti-number bias" as I've heard it called is just that -- an anti-number bias. There's absolutely no evidence that minorities are gaining some extraordinary advantage from this process. > But let's be realistic about the facts here. There are no "facts" here. This story and your link introduce nothing new. You're making a circular argument: "Going by the SAT scores which colleges are discounting more and more the best test takers are being discounted more and more." Duh.

mlthoughts2018 8y ago

“Make your children interesting,” Faust said, while rubbing her thumb against her index and middle fingers and winking at the audience.

ythn 8y ago
I thought it was funny
JackFr 8y ago
The thing is Harvard doesn't need your money. If your non-legacy family has the resources to make a big enough donation to move to move the needle, your likely to either: 1) get in anyway just based on who you are, or 2) not really care whether you go to Harvard or not because you're the scion of generational wealth.
- mlthoughts2018 8y ago
  I think this is incorrect. It reminds me of The Simpsons' joke about Bill Gates, ("buy him out boys ... what, did you think I got rich by writing a bunch of checks?"). Harvard doesn't need anybody's money, but they sure aren't going to use endowment money to make things free. They want your money, regardless of whether or not they need it, whether it's a huge status-signaling donation or a drop in the ocean semester's worth of tuition. They absolutely are trying to optimize how to get that money, now and in the future. I also think you underestimate how much big scions of generational wealth compete for status symbols like Harvard degrees. Once things become decoupled from money, that type of status signaling only increases in importance, lending legitimacy to the children of foreign rulers and diplomats, acting as a currency to normalize political relations with western countries or between corporations with vastly different political party affiliations. Harvard sells status, and absolutely is looking at how to monetize that. If offering a pittance of tuition relief to underrepresented groups helps maintain their entrenched brand status, they'll do it because of the long term effect on their ability to monetize reputation, not in spite of. It also reminds me of how Harvard absolutely hounds graduates for donations, despite utterly not needing them by comparison to what Harvard Management Corporation does. Mike Reiss (Simpsons writer and Harvard alum) skewered this in [0], saying among other things, > "Harvard is like a bum who starts bugging you for spare change on the bus. And then follows you around for the rest of your life. Oh, and that bum already has $40 billion in the bank." [0]: < https://features.thecrimson.com/2014/fm-comedy-issue/article/mike-reiss-oxymorons/ https://features.thecrimson.com/2014/fm-comedy-issue/article... >
  - perl4ever 8y ago
    "Harvard doesn't need anybody's money, but they sure aren't going to use endowment money to make things free." I thought Harvard did make it essentially free to attend if your parents have a middle class income.
    - mlthoughts2018 8y ago
      Around 20% don’t pay tuition I believe. But keep in mind that Harvard tilts heavy toward grad student population, and selects heavily for students that win fellowships and this brings in outside money (that is how I got to attend) and master’s students who typically pay full tuition. Among my PhD cohort, it was a common joke to say that 1 graduate student was funding X free undergrads in the department (given that we were all supported fully, including insurance, by outside funding). 20% of undergrads going tuition-free is just part of Harvard’s marketing budget. It’s not philanthropy, just the cost of doing business if your business is elite status signaling.

ardent_uno 8y ago

Except being a URM (under represented minority) individual is one of the most beneficial factors for admission at elite colleges. The statistics clearly show this.

dnomad 8y ago
The "statistics" don't show any such thing. You do have to admire the intense racial resentment at work here. There's no evidence at all that these Asian Americans aren't boring cookie-cutter kids when compared to the broader pool of applicants. The headline literally reads 'Harvard admissions have a broader perspective than Alumni interviewers' ... duh. But this non-story is enough to summon up all sorts of wild accusations and intense paranoia that somehow, somewhere the blacks are being given an unfair advantage.
- ardent_uno 8y ago
  Of course they do. Consider this research: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/04/09/new-research-how-elite-colleges-make-admissions-decisions https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/04/09/new-research-... Among elite Universities that initially do a holistic review of applicants to narrow down the applicant pool, URM status is viewed as the most important factor for an applicant by 42% of the universities, equal to the number of schools that view "exceptional talent" as the most important factor. Being a URM is basically equivalent to being an "exceptionally talented" non-URM in the eyes of many elite colleges' admissions boards. Look up average SAT scores of different ethnic groups admitted to elite colleges as well. The disparity is glaring. Now, we can argue that giving URM's a leg up in admissions is justified. I'm willing to have that discussion. But let's be realistic about the facts here.
  - dnomad 8y ago
    > Look up average SAT scores of different ethnic groups admitted to elite colleges as well. The disparity is glaring. Yes, everybody appeals to SAT scores. SAT scores are easily gamed. That's why more and more colleges are deprioritizing or abandoning them completely. What American colleges are increasingly uninterested in are excellent test-takers. Nobody is persuaded that students who are able to grind out excellent numbers (usually with the help of an army of private tutors) will actually add anything new to the university. This "anti-number bias" as I've heard it called is just that -- an anti-number bias. There's absolutely no evidence that minorities are gaining some extraordinary advantage from this process. > But let's be realistic about the facts here. There are no "facts" here. This story and your link introduce nothing new. You're making a circular argument: "Going by the SAT scores which colleges are discounting more and more the best test takers are being discounted more and more." Duh.