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Something I find bemusing are the never ending slew of studies that aim to evangelize 'new ideas' in parenting and child rearing contrasted against the negative

Something I find bemusing are the never ending slew of studies that aim to evangelize 'new ideas' in parenting and child rearing contrasted against the negative changes in outcomes of children and young adults in the US today. Children and young adults in the US today are, compared to decades past, suffering sharp spikes in mental illness, obesity, as well as performing relatively worse academically and even exhibiting lower average IQ. It seems that something we have done or changed has resulted in an incredibly negative change in developmental outcomes. Yet there simultaneously seems to be no little to no effort to see what we were doing so well before, or what we're doing so poorly now in. Instead studies such this one instead seek to constantly demonize past practice and evangelize for new change for reasons that seem to be almost exclusively driven by ideological bias. Or shall we simply remain in denial?

XorNot 8y ago
Maybe it's the rise of all these men who use weasel words rather then presenting their argument and responding to criticism?
- TangoTrotFox 8y ago
  This is perhaps the point. In science critiquing ideas is not what you do, at least beyond ensuring that they are logically consistent. Instead, you critique results. Relativity is something that, intuitively, sounds completely foolish and plainly absurd. Yet it is absolutely and completely correct, so far as we can currently determine. Or take penicillin - that treating infections with something that emerges as a byproduct of the blue green rot in decaying matter is a good idea is something that would run contrary to any person of any sensibility - and indeed, its utilization was actually neglected for many years after its discovery due to the presumption that such an illogical result simply could not be correct. In the social sciences this point has been lost since the inability to perform meaningful tests means all we're left with are ideas. Yet we can see quantifiable changes in society in the longrun over time and many of the views evangelized within the paper have certainly become more common place - with the authors going so far as to label them "the new ideals". Yet the results we can measure have been absolutely atrocious. But there seems to be little to no interest in consider why this may be. Instead it's onward to ever more new ideas supported by little more than intuition and studies that increasingly often cannot even be replicated built upon other studies that can't be replicated. And even this study builds upon that house of cards stating that previous studies trying to link what they linked were unsuccessful, yet with their 'new and improved' method of qualifying masculinity, they were able to finally show a link.
  - XorNot 8y ago
    Whoosh!
Angostura 8y ago
" suffering sharp spikes in mental illness, obesity, as well as performing relatively worse academically and even exhibiting lower average IQ" There's been really quite a lot of research into these kinds of thing. There is no doubt that in many respects the environment that kids are being bought up in today is more stressful, distracting, uncertain, unstable etc. I don't think you have to look at changes in parenting style to account or them.
- TangoTrotFox 8y ago
  What!? Kids in earlier times, even as recently as the 80s grew up in a time where they were constantly facing the very real threat of nuclear annihilation at moment's notice! With nuclear drills only being ended sometime in the 90s. In the 80s the we had a political era that included real assassination attempts on the president, the pope, and more, violent crime was at record highs, and more. Today is more "stressful, distracting, uncertain, unstable, etc" how exactly? And you're again doing what I think is actually quite dangerous, yet also standard practice in the social sciences. While I think your presumption is wrong, you're assuming that not only is it true but if it were true than it would naturally have a causal explanation for another factor. Yet I think there is an extremely strong argument that your presumption would actually have a causal effect in the exact opposite method of which you imply. Humanity excels when dealing with crisis. Nearly all of our evolutionary existence has been living in times of great adversity. I think the fact we live in such relative comfort and safety now a days is something may be interacting negatively with our evolutionary wiring (such a hypothesis would even explain things such as 'outrage culture' and internet activism - in lieu of problems, create them!) As I mentioned IQs are decreasing (and literally decreasing - not 'increasing more slowly' towards an asymptotic zero), but this is something that's only happening in the developed world. In the developing world, where lives are still much harder and threats more imminent - IQs continue to increase, academic performance is increasing, and so on. Vietnam for instance, today is ranked 8th in the world in science - as they teach with a per student budget a tiny fraction of ours, even parity adjusted. There are clearly many factors to progress that we seem to just have 0 interest in considering.
  - Angostura 8y ago
amyjess 8y ago
And yet juvenile crime is not only at a 30-year low but keeps hitting new lows year after year after year. [0] [1] [2] [3] [0] http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/documents/CA_Youth_Crime_2011.pdf http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/documents/CA_Youth_Crime_20... [1] https://www.scpr.org/blogs/news/2012/10/31/10793/explaining-californias-juvenile-crime-decline/ https://www.scpr.org/blogs/news/2012/10/31/10793/explaining-... [2] https://johnjayrec.nyc/2013/10/03/databit201304/ https://johnjayrec.nyc/2013/10/03/databit201304/ [3] https://jjie.org/2015/02/26/ncjj-report-shows-juvenile-crime-keeps-falling-but-reasons-elusive/ https://jjie.org/2015/02/26/ncjj-report-shows-juvenile-crime...
- TheBeardKing 8y ago
  Is a decrease in crime really a valid counterpoint to an increase in depressed, overweight, and suicidal kids? On one hand you have maybe time served in juvy with a chance to straighten out and learn life lessons, or possibly become a career criminal. On the other hand you have an obese recluse with a chance of suicide or long-term depression. edit: To add to that, of course crime is down - kids are driving later, going out less, having less sex. There are less opportunities for crime, unless you count underage sexting. So if you view more time spent in front of a screen preferable to a decrease in misdemeanor loitering, you'd have a point.

XorNot 8y ago

Maybe it's the rise of all these men who use weasel words rather then presenting their argument and responding to criticism?

TangoTrotFox 8y ago
This is perhaps the point. In science critiquing ideas is not what you do, at least beyond ensuring that they are logically consistent. Instead, you critique results. Relativity is something that, intuitively, sounds completely foolish and plainly absurd. Yet it is absolutely and completely correct, so far as we can currently determine. Or take penicillin - that treating infections with something that emerges as a byproduct of the blue green rot in decaying matter is a good idea is something that would run contrary to any person of any sensibility - and indeed, its utilization was actually neglected for many years after its discovery due to the presumption that such an illogical result simply could not be correct. In the social sciences this point has been lost since the inability to perform meaningful tests means all we're left with are ideas. Yet we can see quantifiable changes in society in the longrun over time and many of the views evangelized within the paper have certainly become more common place - with the authors going so far as to label them "the new ideals". Yet the results we can measure have been absolutely atrocious. But there seems to be little to no interest in consider why this may be. Instead it's onward to ever more new ideas supported by little more than intuition and studies that increasingly often cannot even be replicated built upon other studies that can't be replicated. And even this study builds upon that house of cards stating that previous studies trying to link what they linked were unsuccessful, yet with their 'new and improved' method of qualifying masculinity, they were able to finally show a link.
- XorNot 8y ago
  Whoosh!

Angostura 8y ago

" suffering sharp spikes in mental illness, obesity, as well as performing relatively worse academically and even exhibiting lower average IQ" There's been really quite a lot of research into these kinds of thing. There is no doubt that in many respects the environment that kids are being bought up in today is more stressful, distracting, uncertain, unstable etc. I don't think you have to look at changes in parenting style to account or them.

TangoTrotFox 8y ago
What!? Kids in earlier times, even as recently as the 80s grew up in a time where they were constantly facing the very real threat of nuclear annihilation at moment's notice! With nuclear drills only being ended sometime in the 90s. In the 80s the we had a political era that included real assassination attempts on the president, the pope, and more, violent crime was at record highs, and more. Today is more "stressful, distracting, uncertain, unstable, etc" how exactly? And you're again doing what I think is actually quite dangerous, yet also standard practice in the social sciences. While I think your presumption is wrong, you're assuming that not only is it true but if it were true than it would naturally have a causal explanation for another factor. Yet I think there is an extremely strong argument that your presumption would actually have a causal effect in the exact opposite method of which you imply. Humanity excels when dealing with crisis. Nearly all of our evolutionary existence has been living in times of great adversity. I think the fact we live in such relative comfort and safety now a days is something may be interacting negatively with our evolutionary wiring (such a hypothesis would even explain things such as 'outrage culture' and internet activism - in lieu of problems, create them!) As I mentioned IQs are decreasing (and literally decreasing - not 'increasing more slowly' towards an asymptotic zero), but this is something that's only happening in the developed world. In the developing world, where lives are still much harder and threats more imminent - IQs continue to increase, academic performance is increasing, and so on. Vietnam for instance, today is ranked 8th in the world in science - as they teach with a per student budget a tiny fraction of ours, even parity adjusted. There are clearly many factors to progress that we seem to just have 0 interest in considering.
- Angostura 8y ago

amyjess 8y ago

And yet juvenile crime is not only at a 30-year low but keeps hitting new lows year after year after year. [0] [1] [2] [3] [0] http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/documents/CA_Youth_Crime_2011.pdf http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/documents/CA_Youth_Crime_20... [1] https://www.scpr.org/blogs/news/2012/10/31/10793/explaining-californias-juvenile-crime-decline/ https://www.scpr.org/blogs/news/2012/10/31/10793/explaining-... [2] https://johnjayrec.nyc/2013/10/03/databit201304/ https://johnjayrec.nyc/2013/10/03/databit201304/ [3] https://jjie.org/2015/02/26/ncjj-report-shows-juvenile-crime-keeps-falling-but-reasons-elusive/ https://jjie.org/2015/02/26/ncjj-report-shows-juvenile-crime...

TheBeardKing 8y ago
Is a decrease in crime really a valid counterpoint to an increase in depressed, overweight, and suicidal kids? On one hand you have maybe time served in juvy with a chance to straighten out and learn life lessons, or possibly become a career criminal. On the other hand you have an obese recluse with a chance of suicide or long-term depression. edit: To add to that, of course crime is down - kids are driving later, going out less, having less sex. There are less opportunities for crime, unless you count underage sexting. So if you view more time spent in front of a screen preferable to a decrease in misdemeanor loitering, you'd have a point.