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Especially when you work in enterprise, and even more so when you work in public sector enterprise. We’re using tech that’s outlived more fads than I can count

Especially when you work in enterprise, and even more so when you work in public sector enterprise. We’re using tech that’s outlived more fads than I can count, yet I’m still surprised when younger hires insists on using stuff that’s basically supported by one man. I’ll admit JAVA almost made it to the list of techs we were going to have a conversation about in the late 00s, but these days it’s as relevant as ever. So is C#. The front end is nothing but terrible though. I trained a few of my employees to do angular, and then they had to relearn things with angular2. Maybe that’s not an issue for start ups where youngsters slave away in their free time, but it cost me roughly $60.000 in expenses and missed work to retrain our people.

Udik 8y ago
> I trained a few of my employees to do angular, and then they had to relearn things with angular2 Had to? Did you hit the limit of the things you could do with AngularJS? Your developers probably decided to move to Angular2 because it was new and shiny, and when they'll be out for a new job it'll look good on the CV. I doubt there was any business reason for investing those $60k.
- Can_Not 8y ago
  I imagine 60k saved you the cost of having to train replacements for your developers that left for companies already using Angular 2.
  - Udik 8y ago
    Then let's say that Angular2 had the same business value of, for example, free meals, stock options, cool company parties and a sense of purpose. In other words, keeping the developers entertained. With the possibile difference that while the above things actually have a value in themselves, the new shiny framework only has one because people are afraid to be left behind.
- eksemplar 8y ago
  There are several business reasons to do update, I'll take you through a few if them. * We operate a lot of IT systems, some of them are build in corporation with smaller local firms. This isn't necessarily the most sound decision financially, but it's a political decision to support the local area. We handle the business end, the project management, we do fairly strict code reviews and we take over once it's ready for operations. I said it wasn't the most sound decision financially, but so far it's actually been a cheap way to develop smaller user friendly functionality in a lot of areas. None of these small companies have AngularJS qualified people anymore, and haven't had for a while. * I can't hire people to do AngularJS. It didn't stick around for long enough for any real talent to develop on it, at least not in Denmark. I'm not hiring from the most lucrative position either, mind you, it's the public sector after all. * I don't want to operate two Angular versions in my stack. I already manage more than 500 different IT systems, it'd be crazy to manage more JavaScript frameworks than I have to. * I spend a lot more than $60k upgrading my employees. A few of my developers wanted to go with Angular 2 rather than stick with AngularJS. I'm perfectly fine with that. They could've learned something else, but I generally let my employees chose their direction as long as it also makes sense on the business end. This upgrade was perfectly fine with me. Unless Google does a completely new take on Angular2-6 in the coming years, it'll turn out to save me a lot more than the $60k in the long run.
  - Udik 8y ago
    It's fine, just none of the reasons you gave is an actual business reason. Basically you moved to Angular2 because everybody else around did, and it would have been harder to recruit and to keep developers, and to interact with developers of other companies. They're perfectly valid reasons, but they have nothing to do with the quality of tool, or of the product, or with the cost sustained to develop it. Basically you had to move on just to stay exactly where you were.
    - eksemplar 8y ago
      You’re not really reading what I write, are you?

Udik 8y ago

> I trained a few of my employees to do angular, and then they had to relearn things with angular2 Had to? Did you hit the limit of the things you could do with AngularJS? Your developers probably decided to move to Angular2 because it was new and shiny, and when they'll be out for a new job it'll look good on the CV. I doubt there was any business reason for investing those $60k.

Can_Not 8y ago
I imagine 60k saved you the cost of having to train replacements for your developers that left for companies already using Angular 2.
- Udik 8y ago
  Then let's say that Angular2 had the same business value of, for example, free meals, stock options, cool company parties and a sense of purpose. In other words, keeping the developers entertained. With the possibile difference that while the above things actually have a value in themselves, the new shiny framework only has one because people are afraid to be left behind.
eksemplar 8y ago
There are several business reasons to do update, I'll take you through a few if them. * We operate a lot of IT systems, some of them are build in corporation with smaller local firms. This isn't necessarily the most sound decision financially, but it's a political decision to support the local area. We handle the business end, the project management, we do fairly strict code reviews and we take over once it's ready for operations. I said it wasn't the most sound decision financially, but so far it's actually been a cheap way to develop smaller user friendly functionality in a lot of areas. None of these small companies have AngularJS qualified people anymore, and haven't had for a while. * I can't hire people to do AngularJS. It didn't stick around for long enough for any real talent to develop on it, at least not in Denmark. I'm not hiring from the most lucrative position either, mind you, it's the public sector after all. * I don't want to operate two Angular versions in my stack. I already manage more than 500 different IT systems, it'd be crazy to manage more JavaScript frameworks than I have to. * I spend a lot more than $60k upgrading my employees. A few of my developers wanted to go with Angular 2 rather than stick with AngularJS. I'm perfectly fine with that. They could've learned something else, but I generally let my employees chose their direction as long as it also makes sense on the business end. This upgrade was perfectly fine with me. Unless Google does a completely new take on Angular2-6 in the coming years, it'll turn out to save me a lot more than the $60k in the long run.
- Udik 8y ago
  It's fine, just none of the reasons you gave is an actual business reason. Basically you moved to Angular2 because everybody else around did, and it would have been harder to recruit and to keep developers, and to interact with developers of other companies. They're perfectly valid reasons, but they have nothing to do with the quality of tool, or of the product, or with the cost sustained to develop it. Basically you had to move on just to stay exactly where you were.
  - eksemplar 8y ago
    You’re not really reading what I write, are you?