11 ms·

I kind of think this herd mentality in the tech industry is annoying. There are a lot of people using React, but that doens’t make Vue a bad choice. Conversely,

by Shank 8y ago

I kind of think this herd mentality in the tech industry is annoying. There are a lot of people using React, but that doens’t make Vue a bad choice. Conversely, just because Vue is new and relatively popular doesn’t make it the “new React.” Pitting them against each other like this is disingenuous, as engineers will make choices and use both — it’s not like picking React will kill Vue or vice versa. That doesn’t say anything about the likes of Ember and Angular that are still in use. A good comparison is backend stacks. Rails exists, but so does Laravel and Django. If it were truly a big deal which was the biggest, then only one choice would remain. Instead, they all have healthy ecosystems with companies using all three. It doesn’t have to be a war.

bmelton 8y ago
I agree that they're very different, but at the same time, there's a non-trivial base of users who earnestly believe that when you're picking a JS framework to use for <insert whatever>, momentum is a meaningful factor in it. Obviously, it rarely makes sense to select a framework that is completely disused, or unsupported, but there are articles out there by reputable sources who assert that if you're not using the current hotness, you're going to miss out on every new tool that crops up in the ecosystem, and your startup will languish and die as a result of having to spend so many more cycles just to keep up with what other people can 'npm install'. What's worse is that they're not entirely wrong. Any good plugin for Vue right now is going to show up in React or Angular post-haste, if it doesn't exist there already. Edit: I also can't help but wonder how many people saw this article, clicked the link, realized it was based on stars, and then went and starred Vue (exactly as I did). Every time I refresh, Vue is closer to 'toppling' React (at least according to these nonsense metrics)
- taylorswift_ 8y ago
  > What's worse is that they're not entirely wrong. If your startup dies because of your choice in javascript framework, you were doomed from the get go.
burlesona 8y ago
I don’t think there’s a war. I think there’s a fanboy who was amused by this and took 5m to put a page together.
ggregoire 8y ago
I wonder if it’s a nerd thing. “Linux is better than Windows” “Android is better than iOS” “Python is better than PHP” “Vim is better than everything else”
- oorza 8y ago
  Once you get old enough, you realize everything is shit and nothing is better than anything else because, again, it's all shit.
  - xellisx 8y ago
    It's just a matter of which shit tastes better to you. =)
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - tuespetre 8y ago
    Gersploosh is clearly the superior framework.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - __derek__ 8y ago
    You might enjoy Gary Bernhardt's talk "Wat"[1] and, well, pretty much all the other ones. [1]: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
  - eksemplar 8y ago
    Especially when you work in enterprise, and even more so when you work in public sector enterprise. We’re using tech that’s outlived more fads than I can count, yet I’m still surprised when younger hires insists on using stuff that’s basically supported by one man. I’ll admit JAVA almost made it to the list of techs we were going to have a conversation about in the late 00s, but these days it’s as relevant as ever. So is C#. The front end is nothing but terrible though. I trained a few of my employees to do angular, and then they had to relearn things with angular2. Maybe that’s not an issue for start ups where youngsters slave away in their free time, but it cost me roughly $60.000 in expenses and missed work to retrain our people.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
zamalek 8y ago
I still see both React and Angular as extremely compelling choices. This website merely turns Vue into another viable choice. However, I sent this link to a PM who I frequent for feedback on pet projects (smart colleague, lots of valuable dissent). In a nutshell, I'm trying to turn <something> into a bare-bones HTML page. We currently use an XML document interpreter that was written in 2006; with performance woes and maintainability woes abound. Transpiling to JS neatly solves this. I started off with my own Angular-like template language, for which this PM correctly scolded me: people will need to learn it. He indicated that I should just use Angular - but the problem is that Angular is opinionated and at odds with this legacy system that I'm trying to clean up. I struggled for at least a week and I dropped for good reasons. I had a discussion with him last Friday and suggested Vue (as it is far closer in execution model when compared to what I am trying to solve): "what's Vue? We shouldn't use niche frameworks, people will need to learn that." Now I have an answer to that :).
shados 8y ago
I completely agree with you, but there is still the point of 3rd party support and workplace acceptance (this is somewhat similar to the stupid "gaming console war"). The more popular a library is, the more support its ecosystem gets, and the more likely you can convince your boss/company to use it. So if you prefer one, you may really want it to be "the most popular" to ensure you can keep using it. Eg: people who really like Angular 2+ are kind of struggling right now. If you join a company and they're not already using Angular 2+, good freagin luck. Chances are they won't switch from React/Vue/whatever to it anytime soon. Because of this, and the general perceived volatility of the JS ecosystem, its not too surprising people treat this as a "war". It's unfortunate.
- mephitix 8y ago
  Another example: Typescript vs. Flow. Two different type checkers, with different capabilities and pros/cons. But given that many devs are using VSCode now there is so much emphasis being placed on Typescript by MS that Flow is slowly becoming a second-class citizen.
  - shados 8y ago
    Great example. Also means you can google anything about TypeScript like the most obscure bug, and SOMEONE has hit it before you. Flow, not so much. Facebook really screwed up by not having Windows support for the longest time, and even after they did, not having it as a first class citizen (since most statistics have FE devs to be roughly 50% on Windows). Not that they cared about adoption, but as Flow users, we did. At my company we started out with Flow and eventually agreed to switch to TypeScript, as the former is getting to be too obscure a technology.
- onion2k 8y ago
  If you join a company and they're not already using Angular 2+, good freagin luck. You can say that about any library; it has nothing to do with the popularity, support or quality of the particular dependency. If the technical decision makers choose not to use something you like then you won't get to use it. This is one of the key reasons to climb your career ladder. If you climb high enough you get to be that decision maker.
linkmotif 8y ago
People are crazy. You give them options, and they want a war to extinguish them and create a winner. There must be a narrative and a winner to rule them all. Otherwise, how do you know what you’re doing is right, after all?

by Shank 8y ago

bmelton 8y ago

I agree that they're very different, but at the same time, there's a non-trivial base of users who earnestly believe that when you're picking a JS framework to use for <insert whatever>, momentum is a meaningful factor in it. Obviously, it rarely makes sense to select a framework that is completely disused, or unsupported, but there are articles out there by reputable sources who assert that if you're not using the current hotness, you're going to miss out on every new tool that crops up in the ecosystem, and your startup will languish and die as a result of having to spend so many more cycles just to keep up with what other people can 'npm install'. What's worse is that they're not entirely wrong. Any good plugin for Vue right now is going to show up in React or Angular post-haste, if it doesn't exist there already. Edit: I also can't help but wonder how many people saw this article, clicked the link, realized it was based on stars, and then went and starred Vue (exactly as I did). Every time I refresh, Vue is closer to 'toppling' React (at least according to these nonsense metrics)

taylorswift_ 8y ago
> What's worse is that they're not entirely wrong. If your startup dies because of your choice in javascript framework, you were doomed from the get go.

burlesona 8y ago

I don’t think there’s a war. I think there’s a fanboy who was amused by this and took 5m to put a page together.

ggregoire 8y ago

I wonder if it’s a nerd thing. “Linux is better than Windows” “Android is better than iOS” “Python is better than PHP” “Vim is better than everything else”

oorza 8y ago
Once you get old enough, you realize everything is shit and nothing is better than anything else because, again, it's all shit.
- xellisx 8y ago
  It's just a matter of which shit tastes better to you. =)
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- tuespetre 8y ago
  Gersploosh is clearly the superior framework.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- __derek__ 8y ago
  You might enjoy Gary Bernhardt's talk "Wat"[1] and, well, pretty much all the other ones. [1]: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
- eksemplar 8y ago
  Especially when you work in enterprise, and even more so when you work in public sector enterprise. We’re using tech that’s outlived more fads than I can count, yet I’m still surprised when younger hires insists on using stuff that’s basically supported by one man. I’ll admit JAVA almost made it to the list of techs we were going to have a conversation about in the late 00s, but these days it’s as relevant as ever. So is C#. The front end is nothing but terrible though. I trained a few of my employees to do angular, and then they had to relearn things with angular2. Maybe that’s not an issue for start ups where youngsters slave away in their free time, but it cost me roughly $60.000 in expenses and missed work to retrain our people.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

zamalek 8y ago

I still see both React and Angular as extremely compelling choices. This website merely turns Vue into another viable choice. However, I sent this link to a PM who I frequent for feedback on pet projects (smart colleague, lots of valuable dissent). In a nutshell, I'm trying to turn <something> into a bare-bones HTML page. We currently use an XML document interpreter that was written in 2006; with performance woes and maintainability woes abound. Transpiling to JS neatly solves this. I started off with my own Angular-like template language, for which this PM correctly scolded me: people will need to learn it. He indicated that I should just use Angular - but the problem is that Angular is opinionated and at odds with this legacy system that I'm trying to clean up. I struggled for at least a week and I dropped for good reasons. I had a discussion with him last Friday and suggested Vue (as it is far closer in execution model when compared to what I am trying to solve): "what's Vue? We shouldn't use niche frameworks, people will need to learn that." Now I have an answer to that :).

shados 8y ago

I completely agree with you, but there is still the point of 3rd party support and workplace acceptance (this is somewhat similar to the stupid "gaming console war"). The more popular a library is, the more support its ecosystem gets, and the more likely you can convince your boss/company to use it. So if you prefer one, you may really want it to be "the most popular" to ensure you can keep using it. Eg: people who really like Angular 2+ are kind of struggling right now. If you join a company and they're not already using Angular 2+, good freagin luck. Chances are they won't switch from React/Vue/whatever to it anytime soon. Because of this, and the general perceived volatility of the JS ecosystem, its not too surprising people treat this as a "war". It's unfortunate.

mephitix 8y ago
Another example: Typescript vs. Flow. Two different type checkers, with different capabilities and pros/cons. But given that many devs are using VSCode now there is so much emphasis being placed on Typescript by MS that Flow is slowly becoming a second-class citizen.
- shados 8y ago
  Great example. Also means you can google anything about TypeScript like the most obscure bug, and SOMEONE has hit it before you. Flow, not so much. Facebook really screwed up by not having Windows support for the longest time, and even after they did, not having it as a first class citizen (since most statistics have FE devs to be roughly 50% on Windows). Not that they cared about adoption, but as Flow users, we did. At my company we started out with Flow and eventually agreed to switch to TypeScript, as the former is getting to be too obscure a technology.
onion2k 8y ago
If you join a company and they're not already using Angular 2+, good freagin luck. You can say that about any library; it has nothing to do with the popularity, support or quality of the particular dependency. If the technical decision makers choose not to use something you like then you won't get to use it. This is one of the key reasons to climb your career ladder. If you climb high enough you get to be that decision maker.

linkmotif 8y ago

People are crazy. You give them options, and they want a war to extinguish them and create a winner. There must be a narrative and a winner to rule them all. Otherwise, how do you know what you’re doing is right, after all?