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I don't follow what you're lamenting. That women without partners lack partners?

cimmanom 8y ago
I guess I'm saying that the only women that paternity leave is unfair to in any way are those who lack partners. Not that there's any simple solution to that. Maybe in a society that believed in social safety nets some sort of home aide could be available during the first few weeks.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  > I guess I'm saying that the only women that paternity leave is unfair to in any way are those who lack partners. It's not partner leave, it's paternity leave. > some sort of home aide could be available during the first few weeks Men don't take paternity leave solely to be 'home aide' - they're taking the time to bond with their new children.
  - cimmanom 8y ago
    No. For most women it's awesome that men get paternity leave. @rconti suggested that equal paternity leave might be unfair because of the additional physical costs that women pay to give birth; I was disagreeing with that, saying that if anything paternity adds value for those women. Paternity leave even adds value for women who will never have children, because it undercuts any argument that prefers hiring men over women because of parental leave. The only women it doesn't add much value for are those without partners. "Unfair" is probably the wrong term. They're simply put at a disadvantage relative to other mothers as a result.
    - chrisseaton 8y ago
      > They're simply put at a disadvantage relative to other mothers as a result. How on earth are they put at a disadvantage that someone who does not exist, and so does not need the benefit, does not get that benefit? And more broadly is it nice to talk about someone else getting a benefit that they need as being putting people who do not get it at a 'disadvantage'? Are you disadvantaged that people who can't walk get wheelchairs?
      - cimmanom 8y ago
        I'm saying that women who have partners who get paternity leave are able to get assistance and support in the weeks after giving birth when they're exhausted, healing, and in many cases fighting post-partum depression. Women without partners or whose partners don't get leave have to face that time alone. It's not a disadvantage in a competition. It's an additional obstacle to overcome that not everyone has to. I think it's a shame we can't give every mother the chance to have that physical assistance and moral support after giving birth. (Of course, before we address that, maybe we should focus on making paid maternity leave universal. Imagine giving birth (pushing a watermelon out of your private parts or having it cut out of your abdomen) and then having to return to a physically demanding minimum wage job immediately after so you can still pay the rent and buy food? While being the sole caregiver for a baby who wakes you every 3 hours for feeding. I don't know how they do it. My friends who gave birth naturally were advised by their doctors not to even try to walk more than around the house for the first 6 weeks after, to allow for proper healing.)
      - fjsolwmv 8y ago
        Having a partner when raising a child is an advantage over not having one. The advantage is not merely financial. That's all.

I guess I'm saying that the only women that paternity leave is unfair to in any way are those who lack partners. Not that there's any simple solution to that. Maybe in a society that believed in social safety nets some sort of home aide could be available during the first few weeks.

chrisseaton 8y ago
> I guess I'm saying that the only women that paternity leave is unfair to in any way are those who lack partners. It's not partner leave, it's paternity leave. > some sort of home aide could be available during the first few weeks Men don't take paternity leave solely to be 'home aide' - they're taking the time to bond with their new children.
- cimmanom 8y ago
  No. For most women it's awesome that men get paternity leave. @rconti suggested that equal paternity leave might be unfair because of the additional physical costs that women pay to give birth; I was disagreeing with that, saying that if anything paternity adds value for those women. Paternity leave even adds value for women who will never have children, because it undercuts any argument that prefers hiring men over women because of parental leave. The only women it doesn't add much value for are those without partners. "Unfair" is probably the wrong term. They're simply put at a disadvantage relative to other mothers as a result.
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    > They're simply put at a disadvantage relative to other mothers as a result. How on earth are they put at a disadvantage that someone who does not exist, and so does not need the benefit, does not get that benefit? And more broadly is it nice to talk about someone else getting a benefit that they need as being putting people who do not get it at a 'disadvantage'? Are you disadvantaged that people who can't walk get wheelchairs?
    - cimmanom 8y ago
      I'm saying that women who have partners who get paternity leave are able to get assistance and support in the weeks after giving birth when they're exhausted, healing, and in many cases fighting post-partum depression. Women without partners or whose partners don't get leave have to face that time alone. It's not a disadvantage in a competition. It's an additional obstacle to overcome that not everyone has to. I think it's a shame we can't give every mother the chance to have that physical assistance and moral support after giving birth. (Of course, before we address that, maybe we should focus on making paid maternity leave universal. Imagine giving birth (pushing a watermelon out of your private parts or having it cut out of your abdomen) and then having to return to a physically demanding minimum wage job immediately after so you can still pay the rent and buy food? While being the sole caregiver for a baby who wakes you every 3 hours for feeding. I don't know how they do it. My friends who gave birth naturally were advised by their doctors not to even try to walk more than around the house for the first 6 weeks after, to allow for proper healing.)
    - fjsolwmv 8y ago
      Having a partner when raising a child is an advantage over not having one. The advantage is not merely financial. That's all.