4 ms·

The Pro hasn't been updated since 2013, MBPs now have non-upgradable components, and the Mac Mini hasn't been touched in years... I think there's a pretty soli

by fetus8 8y ago

The Pro hasn't been updated since 2013, MBPs now have non-upgradable components, and the Mac Mini hasn't been touched in years... I think there's a pretty solid reason people believe they're ignoring/don't care about professional Mac users.

snowwrestler 8y ago
Upgradeable components have nothing to do with pro users. A huge number of Mac professional customers are creative professionals who never want to see the inside of a computer. Heck most web and application developers don't want to see the inside of a computer. And many professionals have scheduled upgrade cycles. At home my personal computer is a 2008 MacBook Pro that I've upgraded with more RAM and an SSD. But at work my budget includes funds for a new machine every 3-5 years.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  Apple doesn't have a huge number Mac users anyways.
  - threeseed 8y ago
    It's around 80 million installed base and 10% market share. Sounds like a lot to me.
    - paulie_a 8y ago
      10% is insignificant. Apple has always been a nonplayer in the desktop/laptop world dating back decades.
      - taylodl 8y ago
        10% is insignificant. Yeah, I used to say the same thing back when Apple was dying in the late 90's and a colleague pointed out it'd be great to own a business that's only generating $2B annual revenues. Our company at the time was generating $60M in annual revenues and we thought we were the shit. And market share is a bad determiner for influence. Apple has always been the mindshare leader in the desktop/laptop world dating back decades. They had a brief spell in the 90's when they were losing their mojo. It could be happening again now that Steve is gone. We'll see.
        paulie_a 8y ago
        15-20 years is not a brief spell. Apple products were complete shit during all of the 90s, then they came out with the ugly POS jelly Bean imac. They were absolutely not a mindshare leader in that era and as for desktops they don't even rank as an afterthought, for laptops they slightly register. Steve jobs matches apple perfectly, overstated in importance and overrated.
- fetus8 8y ago
  They may not want to see the insides of their own computers, but what if they waltz into their local Apple store and complain that their machine isn't running Adobe Whatever fast enough? Their only option is to buy a new machine with more RAM, instead of 5 years ago when they could just double it and see a performance gain. I understand where you're coming from, but for some people upgrading the machine they have is a preferred option than outright buying something new.
- doktrin 8y ago
  I think his point stands, honestly. Apple's "pro" machines aren't really all that pro anymore compared to the PC market. Nor are the new machines very "pro" in the rugged or robust sense. Hell, the new keyboard's being taken out by grains of dust. The new MBP is basically an ultrabook like the X1 carbon or the Dell XPS - which is fine, but that's also Apple's entire notebook product line for "pro" customers. They completely lack equivalents for any of the higher end workhorse machines that the PC manufacturers offer.
- _ph_ 8y ago
  Not having upgradable components can mean a lack of options a pro might need. But even without that in the past users could upgrade their machine by buying a new one. Except when Apple didn’t update the hardware in years.
- mamcx 8y ago
  Exist two ways to do this: - Make a product sooooo good that your PRO users have not much to wish to... (aka a maxed out machine) - Make a product flexible enough so PRO users can tweak it to solve their problems (aka a configurable macpro). And more importantly: - Make it reliable. Not macbook pro-last keyboard reliable :)
- jdietrich 8y ago
  >Upgradeable components have nothing to do with pro users. Nonsense. If you see a Mac Pro in a recording studio or an edit suite or a VFX house, it's invariably bolted into a Sonnet chassis. Creative professionals need drive bays, rack ears and PCIe slots. They need DSP accelerators, fibre channel interfaces and SPI capture cards. Apple say that the Mac Pro is "built for creativity on an epic scale". They don't mention that most creative professionals need a $1,500 chassis to replace the functionality that the old cheesegrater Mac Pro had. https://www.sonnetstore.com/collections/thunderbolt-expansion-systems/products/xmac-pro-server https://www.sonnetstore.com/collections/thunderbolt-expansio... The scheduled upgrade cycle for some creative professionals is extremely short, because their time is valuable and their workflow is bottlenecked by hardware. Many users considered the Mac Pro to be underpowered at launch, because it has a single CPU socket and only four RAM slots. After five years without an update, many users have either switched to PC or are seriously considering it. The 2019 Mac Pro is make-or-break for Apple in the creative industries. Apple have completely exhausted their goodwill.
briandear 8y ago
I have a 64 core, 128gb, 4TB iMac Pro. Pretty sure that is “professional.” It even has an SD slot. Also has a 5k display and Final Cut Pro can edit 8k video. The “not caring about pros” tripe is ridiculous.
- icedchai 8y ago
  The iMac Pro is very impressive. (Even my 3 year old iMac Retina 5K is still a decent machine!)
- FireBeyond 8y ago
  > I have a 64 core, 128gb, 4TB iMac Pro. The most extensive option is an 18 core, 36 thread Xeon W 2195... Impressive, but not 64 core.

by fetus8 8y ago

snowwrestler 8y ago

Upgradeable components have nothing to do with pro users. A huge number of Mac professional customers are creative professionals who never want to see the inside of a computer. Heck most web and application developers don't want to see the inside of a computer. And many professionals have scheduled upgrade cycles. At home my personal computer is a 2008 MacBook Pro that I've upgraded with more RAM and an SSD. But at work my budget includes funds for a new machine every 3-5 years.

paulie_a 8y ago
Apple doesn't have a huge number Mac users anyways.
- threeseed 8y ago
  It's around 80 million installed base and 10% market share. Sounds like a lot to me.
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    10% is insignificant. Apple has always been a nonplayer in the desktop/laptop world dating back decades.
    - taylodl 8y ago
      10% is insignificant. Yeah, I used to say the same thing back when Apple was dying in the late 90's and a colleague pointed out it'd be great to own a business that's only generating $2B annual revenues. Our company at the time was generating $60M in annual revenues and we thought we were the shit. And market share is a bad determiner for influence. Apple has always been the mindshare leader in the desktop/laptop world dating back decades. They had a brief spell in the 90's when they were losing their mojo. It could be happening again now that Steve is gone. We'll see.
      - paulie_a 8y ago
        15-20 years is not a brief spell. Apple products were complete shit during all of the 90s, then they came out with the ugly POS jelly Bean imac. They were absolutely not a mindshare leader in that era and as for desktops they don't even rank as an afterthought, for laptops they slightly register. Steve jobs matches apple perfectly, overstated in importance and overrated.
fetus8 8y ago
They may not want to see the insides of their own computers, but what if they waltz into their local Apple store and complain that their machine isn't running Adobe Whatever fast enough? Their only option is to buy a new machine with more RAM, instead of 5 years ago when they could just double it and see a performance gain. I understand where you're coming from, but for some people upgrading the machine they have is a preferred option than outright buying something new.
doktrin 8y ago
I think his point stands, honestly. Apple's "pro" machines aren't really all that pro anymore compared to the PC market. Nor are the new machines very "pro" in the rugged or robust sense. Hell, the new keyboard's being taken out by grains of dust. The new MBP is basically an ultrabook like the X1 carbon or the Dell XPS - which is fine, but that's also Apple's entire notebook product line for "pro" customers. They completely lack equivalents for any of the higher end workhorse machines that the PC manufacturers offer.
_ph_ 8y ago
Not having upgradable components can mean a lack of options a pro might need. But even without that in the past users could upgrade their machine by buying a new one. Except when Apple didn’t update the hardware in years.
mamcx 8y ago
Exist two ways to do this: - Make a product sooooo good that your PRO users have not much to wish to... (aka a maxed out machine) - Make a product flexible enough so PRO users can tweak it to solve their problems (aka a configurable macpro). And more importantly: - Make it reliable. Not macbook pro-last keyboard reliable :)
jdietrich 8y ago
>Upgradeable components have nothing to do with pro users. Nonsense. If you see a Mac Pro in a recording studio or an edit suite or a VFX house, it's invariably bolted into a Sonnet chassis. Creative professionals need drive bays, rack ears and PCIe slots. They need DSP accelerators, fibre channel interfaces and SPI capture cards. Apple say that the Mac Pro is "built for creativity on an epic scale". They don't mention that most creative professionals need a $1,500 chassis to replace the functionality that the old cheesegrater Mac Pro had. https://www.sonnetstore.com/collections/thunderbolt-expansion-systems/products/xmac-pro-server https://www.sonnetstore.com/collections/thunderbolt-expansio... The scheduled upgrade cycle for some creative professionals is extremely short, because their time is valuable and their workflow is bottlenecked by hardware. Many users considered the Mac Pro to be underpowered at launch, because it has a single CPU socket and only four RAM slots. After five years without an update, many users have either switched to PC or are seriously considering it. The 2019 Mac Pro is make-or-break for Apple in the creative industries. Apple have completely exhausted their goodwill.

briandear 8y ago

I have a 64 core, 128gb, 4TB iMac Pro. Pretty sure that is “professional.” It even has an SD slot. Also has a 5k display and Final Cut Pro can edit 8k video. The “not caring about pros” tripe is ridiculous.

icedchai 8y ago
The iMac Pro is very impressive. (Even my 3 year old iMac Retina 5K is still a decent machine!)
FireBeyond 8y ago
> I have a 64 core, 128gb, 4TB iMac Pro. The most extensive option is an 18 core, 36 thread Xeon W 2195... Impressive, but not 64 core.