9 ms·

I work full time for an IT company that supports Apple products and we are in the same position. Its hard for us to recommend upgrades unless there is an hardw

by quizme2000 8y ago

I work full time for an IT company that supports Apple products and we are in the same position. Its hard for us to recommend upgrades unless there is an hardware failure that's beyond the replacement cost. I still rock a 2012 MBP that has RAM, HDD, ODD, and ports. It can be service by removing 8 screws. IMHO it is the peak Apple Laptop. After 2012 they started being anti-consumer, anti-repair in laptop design.

ataturk 8y ago
The 2015 MB Pro was damn decent. I bought my daughter a refurb 2012 Pro 13" with 16GB of RAM and yes, it is damn decent. Not sure what the hell is wrong at Apple. My work machine is the 2017 MB Pro and its awful, I hate it.
danbolt 8y ago
I use a mid-2012 at home too. The RAM/HDD slots have been updated multiple times. I love how long the device has lasted me.
- quizme2000 8y ago
  I love refurbishing these models. You can upgrade the RAM to 16 GB ($110), Install an SSD ($150), and replace the battery ($65) in 15 mins. Your biggest hurdle is having a $1 tri-wing bit for the battery and it will run MacOS as well as any current model.
  - slantyyz 8y ago
    The great thing about those models. You didn't have to max out right away and pay the exorbitant prices. When I bought my 2011MBP, I slowly upgraded the parts as prices came down. My advice to people buying Mac laptops today is to max everything out if you can afford to, because you're generally going to be stuck with the RAM and storage for as long as you keep the computer. (Yes, I know you can upgrade the SSDs, but it's a little more complicated than running to your local computer store to buy commodity parts).
    - geoelectric 8y ago
      That's what I did with my 2012 13" MBA--my wife still uses it, and it actually still runs current software pretty well. If it weren't for the lack of Retina display I'd probably still be on it. Right now, I'm holding onto my 2015 13" MBP with both hands (also maxed it on the same principle) until Apple releases a halfway decent MBP again. I use a 2016 15" for work, and still can't type well on the damned thing after having it for a year and a half.
tropdrop 8y ago
Thanks to those removable screws, I upgraded my mid-2012 with an SSD and it boots blindingly fast. Only when I do particularly complicated graphics work do I notice any lag - other than that, this laptop is a champion and I see no laptop on the market I would rather use
jedberg 8y ago
I'm typing this comment on a Late 2011 MBP right now, with upgraded ram and an SSD. Works great! I agree with you though, 2012 was peak MacBook.
wilsonnb2 8y ago
I'm not convinced that consumers care if their laptop has easily replaceable parts. Consumers definitely like thin laptops though, which is at odds with repairability in most cases.
- xvf22 8y ago
  When a motherboard failure wipes out their soldered on SSD I'm sure they'll care.
  - wilsonnb2 8y ago
    Sure, if that was a common occurrence I'm sure people would care, but it's not so they don't.
    - bunderbunder 8y ago
      SSDs failing, maybe not, but I gather that mechanical failures on the new MBP keyboard are also very expensive to fix.
    - xvf22 8y ago
      Motherboards fail more often than you'd imagine, liquid damage being a common cause. The chips may be fine but since they're part of the failed motherboard Apple won't do a thing to recover the data. Unlike removable storage where you can move it to a working machine.
    - ropeadopepope 8y ago
      Do you have a source on that? The mac users I know are especially worried about data loss because of the high rate of other failures on their new MBPs. One of my co-workers temporarily lost some of his work because he hadn't pushed his changes to git and his computer had to go back to apple for repair because it wouldn't boot. He got the computer back the next day, so all was well, but it makes you wonder.
  - kogir 8y ago
    This happened to me and I was rather disappointed. I had backups but Apple didn’t even offer to try and recover data at any cost, or allow me to keep the parts with my data still on them.
seba_dos1 8y ago
My gf uses mid-2012 MBP 13, which we upgraded with SSD and 16GB RAM. If it ever fails, there're simply no Macs for her on the market that it could be replaced with and I don't see her going back to Windows - which means I'll probably have to setup a GNU/Linux working environment for her and to make sure Wine runs her Photoshop version well. Alternatively we may try to get another mid-2012 MBP, as having a Mac around is good when I have to build and test macOS and iOS ports of my software. I can't see us buying any newer MBP, it doesn't make any sense economically.
- doktrin 8y ago
  > If it ever fails, there're simply no Macs for her on the market that it could be replaced with and I don't see her going back to Windows - which means I'll probably have to setup a GNU/Linux working environment for her and to make sure Wine runs her Photoshop version well. Out of curiosity, does your gf actually need a unix based OS? If she uses Photoshop daily and otherwise doesn't do any work that benefits from Linux - why not just use Windows?
  - seba_dos1 8y ago
    She strongly prefers macOS to Windows, so I just assume it will be easier to configure some GNU/Linux DE to feel somewhat familiar. Plus both of us haven't used Windows for many years now, while she knows macOS, and I know Unix in general quite well. Also, if I can avoid having Windows running on our home network that's a bonus point for me ;)
    - alistairSH 8y ago
      Why can't she just use a newer MBP 13? Is it because you don't like the anti-consumer build, or does she have an objection of her own? Basically, for a consumer (non-business, non-gamer) who just needs a laptop that works, running software they are familiar with, I don't see a reason to avoid new Macs. I understand that the anti-consumer builds are annoying. But, for a non-tech-geek who will likely never upgrade internals, what does it matter?
murukesh_s 8y ago
The retina display though. it's difficult to go back once you get used to it..
endemic 8y ago
I love all the responses about how folks are able to prolong the lifespan of their older Mac hardware (I'm running a 2010 MBP myself). I imagine that's part of the problem -- Apple sells more hardware if you can't upgrade.
- rbritton 8y ago
  Not necessarily. I used to get the newest model every other year. Following the discontinuation of the 17" laptop, I held onto that until it died, only then buying the newest MBA. On the desktop side, my Mac Pro is eight years old now, and it has long been upgraded as far as it can go. Sometimes I miss things like AirDrop from my phone, but I don't miss them enough to spend money on what is effectively a downgrade in usability. I'd love to upgrade and have no issues spending the money in theory, but I can't justify the expense for the current hardware.
  - LeftTurnSignal 8y ago
    I bought 6 separate Apple machines between 2005 to 2012. Either because the upgrade was worth it, I had a nice bonus, or some other non-important reason. The last piece of Apple hardware I bought was a new mid-2012 Macbook Pro. After seeing where Apple was going in 2013 / 2014, I have had zero desire to replace it. I upgraded everything in it, and replaced the optical drive with another SSD. I'll be sad the day that thing finally dies. I'm not sure if I'll go with another Apple machine or XPS with linux. I really don't want it to die lol.
modzu 8y ago
truth. someone needs to step up if not apple. plenty of us still build things with actual computers even if we arent an easy cash cow
chris_wot 8y ago
I work for a media company and we have 5-6 year old MacBook Air and MBPs that are constantly being serviced. Fun fact: the MBA apple symbol light shows a noticeable light ring on the display after this amount of time. I am amazed that sales staff still want MacBooks, but I put it down to the brushed metal finish.
gargravarr 8y ago
I'm the sysadmin in my company, and as noted in previous posts we have a lot of these USB-C MBPs. They're a logistical pain trying to keep up with adapters and I find the keyboards AND trackpads to be unusable - I was trying to click-and-drag on a colleague's computer earlier and just couldn't manage it, it kept registering a double-click. Apple also have incredible spite for soldering the RAM and SSDs to the logic boards to prevent anyone upgrading. I recently had the displeasure of trying to rescue a file off a non-booting MBP. It took me a multitude of hours and Target Disk Mode didn't even work. If one of these machines outright failed, I would have to write off the hardware and all the data on it. I just sold a 2011 13" MBP I got from an office clearance on eBay. Despite being 7 years old, I got the equivalent of a couple of Chromebooks for it, with the new owner extremely eager to get their hands on it. I upped the disk to an SSD before I sold it and installed High Sierra, and it ran great. From the same clearance, I got myself a 2014 Retina. Can't deny, the screen is gorgeous, the trackpad is great and the keyboard is very usable. It was already maxxed out with RAM, but despite having an upgradeable SSD, my upgrade options are limited because Apple use a proprietary form factor. I absolutely loved my old Discrete MBP, which I used daily for 5 years and took around the world with me, but I hold the Retina at arm's length. My other laptop is a custom-built gaming machine where I can push the RAM up to 64GB if I want to, as well as fitting SATA and NVMe SSDs. The lack of upgradeability is a real limit to the range. We also have XPS 13's, which despite copying Apple on soldering in the RAM, have standard m.2 SSDs. I got an enclosure to drop the disks into if necessary. As best I can tell with everything in Apple's current lineup, if it breaks or is outclassed, even within months of its release, you just throw it away and buy a new one. I can't help but remember Tim Cook commenting how he noticed Windows users switching to Mac were coming from hardware that was 5 or more years old. His comment was how 'sad' this was. This was startling because it shows how long non-Apple hardware lasts, and how fundamentally Apple does not understand this. They would much rather you renewed your computer as often as you renewed your iPhone.
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
  > I was trying to click-and-drag on a colleague's computer earlier and just couldn't manage it, it kept registering a double-click. Not sure if this is your issue, but (at least) the new MBP has two levels of "clicking" on the touch pad. If you just press with a little force, so that no tangible "click" occurs, you get one behavior. If you push hard enough to feel a "click", you get different behavior. Mentioning this because it drove me a little nuts until I figured it out.

ataturk 8y ago

The 2015 MB Pro was damn decent. I bought my daughter a refurb 2012 Pro 13" with 16GB of RAM and yes, it is damn decent. Not sure what the hell is wrong at Apple. My work machine is the 2017 MB Pro and its awful, I hate it.

danbolt 8y ago

I use a mid-2012 at home too. The RAM/HDD slots have been updated multiple times. I love how long the device has lasted me.

quizme2000 8y ago
I love refurbishing these models. You can upgrade the RAM to 16 GB ($110), Install an SSD ($150), and replace the battery ($65) in 15 mins. Your biggest hurdle is having a $1 tri-wing bit for the battery and it will run MacOS as well as any current model.
- slantyyz 8y ago
  The great thing about those models. You didn't have to max out right away and pay the exorbitant prices. When I bought my 2011MBP, I slowly upgraded the parts as prices came down. My advice to people buying Mac laptops today is to max everything out if you can afford to, because you're generally going to be stuck with the RAM and storage for as long as you keep the computer. (Yes, I know you can upgrade the SSDs, but it's a little more complicated than running to your local computer store to buy commodity parts).
  - geoelectric 8y ago
    That's what I did with my 2012 13" MBA--my wife still uses it, and it actually still runs current software pretty well. If it weren't for the lack of Retina display I'd probably still be on it. Right now, I'm holding onto my 2015 13" MBP with both hands (also maxed it on the same principle) until Apple releases a halfway decent MBP again. I use a 2016 15" for work, and still can't type well on the damned thing after having it for a year and a half.

tropdrop 8y ago

Thanks to those removable screws, I upgraded my mid-2012 with an SSD and it boots blindingly fast. Only when I do particularly complicated graphics work do I notice any lag - other than that, this laptop is a champion and I see no laptop on the market I would rather use

jedberg 8y ago

I'm typing this comment on a Late 2011 MBP right now, with upgraded ram and an SSD. Works great! I agree with you though, 2012 was peak MacBook.

wilsonnb2 8y ago

I'm not convinced that consumers care if their laptop has easily replaceable parts. Consumers definitely like thin laptops though, which is at odds with repairability in most cases.

xvf22 8y ago
When a motherboard failure wipes out their soldered on SSD I'm sure they'll care.
- wilsonnb2 8y ago
  Sure, if that was a common occurrence I'm sure people would care, but it's not so they don't.
  - bunderbunder 8y ago
    SSDs failing, maybe not, but I gather that mechanical failures on the new MBP keyboard are also very expensive to fix.
  - xvf22 8y ago
    Motherboards fail more often than you'd imagine, liquid damage being a common cause. The chips may be fine but since they're part of the failed motherboard Apple won't do a thing to recover the data. Unlike removable storage where you can move it to a working machine.
  - ropeadopepope 8y ago
    Do you have a source on that? The mac users I know are especially worried about data loss because of the high rate of other failures on their new MBPs. One of my co-workers temporarily lost some of his work because he hadn't pushed his changes to git and his computer had to go back to apple for repair because it wouldn't boot. He got the computer back the next day, so all was well, but it makes you wonder.
- kogir 8y ago
  This happened to me and I was rather disappointed. I had backups but Apple didn’t even offer to try and recover data at any cost, or allow me to keep the parts with my data still on them.

seba_dos1 8y ago

My gf uses mid-2012 MBP 13, which we upgraded with SSD and 16GB RAM. If it ever fails, there're simply no Macs for her on the market that it could be replaced with and I don't see her going back to Windows - which means I'll probably have to setup a GNU/Linux working environment for her and to make sure Wine runs her Photoshop version well. Alternatively we may try to get another mid-2012 MBP, as having a Mac around is good when I have to build and test macOS and iOS ports of my software. I can't see us buying any newer MBP, it doesn't make any sense economically.

doktrin 8y ago
> If it ever fails, there're simply no Macs for her on the market that it could be replaced with and I don't see her going back to Windows - which means I'll probably have to setup a GNU/Linux working environment for her and to make sure Wine runs her Photoshop version well. Out of curiosity, does your gf actually need a unix based OS? If she uses Photoshop daily and otherwise doesn't do any work that benefits from Linux - why not just use Windows?
- seba_dos1 8y ago
  She strongly prefers macOS to Windows, so I just assume it will be easier to configure some GNU/Linux DE to feel somewhat familiar. Plus both of us haven't used Windows for many years now, while she knows macOS, and I know Unix in general quite well. Also, if I can avoid having Windows running on our home network that's a bonus point for me ;)
  - alistairSH 8y ago
    Why can't she just use a newer MBP 13? Is it because you don't like the anti-consumer build, or does she have an objection of her own? Basically, for a consumer (non-business, non-gamer) who just needs a laptop that works, running software they are familiar with, I don't see a reason to avoid new Macs. I understand that the anti-consumer builds are annoying. But, for a non-tech-geek who will likely never upgrade internals, what does it matter?

murukesh_s 8y ago

The retina display though. it's difficult to go back once you get used to it..

endemic 8y ago

I love all the responses about how folks are able to prolong the lifespan of their older Mac hardware (I'm running a 2010 MBP myself). I imagine that's part of the problem -- Apple sells more hardware if you can't upgrade.

rbritton 8y ago
Not necessarily. I used to get the newest model every other year. Following the discontinuation of the 17" laptop, I held onto that until it died, only then buying the newest MBA. On the desktop side, my Mac Pro is eight years old now, and it has long been upgraded as far as it can go. Sometimes I miss things like AirDrop from my phone, but I don't miss them enough to spend money on what is effectively a downgrade in usability. I'd love to upgrade and have no issues spending the money in theory, but I can't justify the expense for the current hardware.
- LeftTurnSignal 8y ago
  I bought 6 separate Apple machines between 2005 to 2012. Either because the upgrade was worth it, I had a nice bonus, or some other non-important reason. The last piece of Apple hardware I bought was a new mid-2012 Macbook Pro. After seeing where Apple was going in 2013 / 2014, I have had zero desire to replace it. I upgraded everything in it, and replaced the optical drive with another SSD. I'll be sad the day that thing finally dies. I'm not sure if I'll go with another Apple machine or XPS with linux. I really don't want it to die lol.

modzu 8y ago

truth. someone needs to step up if not apple. plenty of us still build things with actual computers even if we arent an easy cash cow

chris_wot 8y ago

I work for a media company and we have 5-6 year old MacBook Air and MBPs that are constantly being serviced. Fun fact: the MBA apple symbol light shows a noticeable light ring on the display after this amount of time. I am amazed that sales staff still want MacBooks, but I put it down to the brushed metal finish.

gargravarr 8y ago

I'm the sysadmin in my company, and as noted in previous posts we have a lot of these USB-C MBPs. They're a logistical pain trying to keep up with adapters and I find the keyboards AND trackpads to be unusable - I was trying to click-and-drag on a colleague's computer earlier and just couldn't manage it, it kept registering a double-click. Apple also have incredible spite for soldering the RAM and SSDs to the logic boards to prevent anyone upgrading. I recently had the displeasure of trying to rescue a file off a non-booting MBP. It took me a multitude of hours and Target Disk Mode didn't even work. If one of these machines outright failed, I would have to write off the hardware and all the data on it. I just sold a 2011 13" MBP I got from an office clearance on eBay. Despite being 7 years old, I got the equivalent of a couple of Chromebooks for it, with the new owner extremely eager to get their hands on it. I upped the disk to an SSD before I sold it and installed High Sierra, and it ran great. From the same clearance, I got myself a 2014 Retina. Can't deny, the screen is gorgeous, the trackpad is great and the keyboard is very usable. It was already maxxed out with RAM, but despite having an upgradeable SSD, my upgrade options are limited because Apple use a proprietary form factor. I absolutely loved my old Discrete MBP, which I used daily for 5 years and took around the world with me, but I hold the Retina at arm's length. My other laptop is a custom-built gaming machine where I can push the RAM up to 64GB if I want to, as well as fitting SATA and NVMe SSDs. The lack of upgradeability is a real limit to the range. We also have XPS 13's, which despite copying Apple on soldering in the RAM, have standard m.2 SSDs. I got an enclosure to drop the disks into if necessary. As best I can tell with everything in Apple's current lineup, if it breaks or is outclassed, even within months of its release, you just throw it away and buy a new one. I can't help but remember Tim Cook commenting how he noticed Windows users switching to Mac were coming from hardware that was 5 or more years old. His comment was how 'sad' this was. This was startling because it shows how long non-Apple hardware lasts, and how fundamentally Apple does not understand this. They would much rather you renewed your computer as often as you renewed your iPhone.

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
> I was trying to click-and-drag on a colleague's computer earlier and just couldn't manage it, it kept registering a double-click. Not sure if this is your issue, but (at least) the new MBP has two levels of "clicking" on the touch pad. If you just press with a little force, so that no tangible "click" occurs, you get one behavior. If you push hard enough to feel a "click", you get different behavior. Mentioning this because it drove me a little nuts until I figured it out.