6 ms·

It's always interesting how something monopoly-like makes companies lazy. I am a cs-student with 3 1/2 year old a machbook pro, which I bought when I started m

It's always interesting how something monopoly-like makes companies lazy. I am a cs-student with 3 1/2 year old a machbook pro, which I bought when I started my studies. I must say that I am still very, very satisfied, it's holding up great. Great display, suprsingly good battery life etc. If something happens to my macbook, i would probalby spend a serious percentage of my savings saving on a new laptop. It's a very imporant part of my life, i do most of my work with it and I highly value the flexibility. In this hypthetical scenario, i would really like to buy a new macbook and would probably go through a lot of financial pain if they took their line-up seriously. But it's really getting ridiculus. I really don't understand why they fail so hard to update their hardware.

scarface74 8y ago
Apple still sells the 2015 pre USB C MacBooks new. If I had to buy a MacBook, that’s the one to get.
- econochoice 8y ago
  I've run into a few issues with the Early to Mid 2015 Macbook fans. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I've seen it across three machines.
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  Not for much longer I think, they are already unavailable in the UK.
wetpaws 8y ago
They don't update their hardware because of the reasons you stated in your post. People love Macs and would buy them regardless of hardware.
dman 8y ago
Sad fact is that Mac sales are now 10% of Apples revenue. I think the only reason Macs receive any attention at all within Apple is because you need Macs to build iphone/ipad apps. Another way of framing this is - how much effort do you put on the bottom 10 percent of your TODO list.
- sidlls 8y ago
  Another way to look at that is the company risks up to 10% of its top line if it doesn't support the product line. Everyone's priorities may differ but if I'm running a business I don't casually give up 10% of my revenue. That's a lot!
- falcor84 8y ago
  The Mac line brought them ~25B revenue in 2017, in one of their best years ever. Looking at a business of this magnitude, I don't see how it matters what percentage of the total revenue this is. There's so much money to be had here and, unlike an individual, a company's attention shouldn't be so limited as to essentially make them forget to collect this additional revenue.
  - sandworm101 8y ago
    >> a company's attention shouldn't be so limited as to essentially make them forget to collect this additional revenue. For a publicly-traded company all that matters is stock price. One would assume that collecting revenues has a direct impact on that price, but we are not in so rational a world. Today it is all about growth potential rather than current revenues. Apple could be turning huge profits on laptops, but if they see that as a mature market then they will and must ignore it. Given Apple's grip on users, they may even see laptops as a competitor to their iPhone business. Time on the macbook is time not on the iPhone. The intent may be to transition all macbook devotees away from lap/desktops altogether.
    - sulam 8y ago
      > For a publicly-traded company all that matters is stock price. Really? You don't want to qualify that at all, maybe? If not, please explain the first 10 years of AMZN.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        He said potential growth. People see Amazon as a growth business.
gbrown 8y ago
I'm still using a 2011 MBP, and I'm quite satisfied. I've replaced the battery, upgraded the RAM, upgraded the HD, and replaced the HD cable, but it's still sufficient for my needs (heavy compute gets done on remote servers anyway). I'm on Linux though, so given recent fails and the general trend towards non-repairability and non-upgradeability, there's very little incentive for me to consider Apple hardware when I eventually upgrade.
- pfranz 8y ago
  Last year I upgraded a 2011 and 2010 MBP to a new MB and MBP. The older laptops I had already maxed out RAM and replaced them with SSDs. The new laptops were worth the upgrade for boot time, wake from sleep, weight, and battery life. However, every criticism about the new laptops are true--even if you throw money at dongles, cables, and wireless replacements. What's ridiculous is I bought an Apple usb-c to hdmi cable and it has very large amounts of signal issues on both the MB and MBP. Thankfully a third-party usb-c to displayport doesn't have those issues. Lastly, since the RAM and HDD aren't upgradable I had to pay higher prices upfront instead of upgrading after the fact like I've been doing for over a decade. Unfortunately, this was also true when looking at similar Linux/PC laptops. I think if I had a 2012 model I would have been able to wait longer for new laptops. Currently, I'm very likely dumping the MBP as soon as new ones come out with a better keyboard. When I did my shopping last year I was prepared to get a Linux laptop if things looked comparable and the price was significantly cheaper (assuming the risk of unknown problems like battery or hardware longevity) and the prices were roughly the same with other compromises I wasn't prepared to make.
- skunkworker 8y ago
  2011s are a great machine. But as of the next MacOS release 10.14 they are no longer supported, as 10.14 will enforce Metal and those pre 2012s don't have the right gpus for it. I recently picked up a lightly used 2015 because the current touch bar ones continue to have problems.
  - gbrown 8y ago
    I'm using Fedora anyway, so the software part doesn't bother me.
peatmoss 8y ago
The iPad Pro is the future of Apple. I am beginning to suspect that general purpose computing has no future apart from Linux—and even then, those of us clinging to it are going to start looking a lot like Amiga enthusiasts who’re keeping their old machines alive by sheer force of will.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  It's hard to imagine when there is still, like, active PC gaming communities and PCs are so important to office work. I remember seeing a lot of this take when people were buying up iPads, but I think there are real limitations -- tablets are just not really good for doing work.
  - peatmoss 8y ago
    I very much hope you are right and I am wrong. The iPad Pro seems to be trying to mitigate some of those issues—at least for the growing segment of the populace who’d prefer to do everything on their phone. I don’t like where Apple is going, but I can easily see a Macbook a generation or two out whose software is more iOS than macOS, and whose character is pretty locked-down / appified.
    - cutler 8y ago
      Nah, Mac OS dev tools are far too *nix-based. That's assuming Apple values its developer base.
  - VirtualAirwaves 8y ago
    Many Apple people are stuck in a bubble and they don't see the impact Chromebooks and Windows 10 PCs (including Microsoft's own Surface line) have in the "real world". I was an Apple user for years buy my last two laptops have been Microsoft Surfaces.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Tablets are perfectly capable of doing work - tablet operating systems on the other hand.... If Apple would just add support for pointing devices and if they would allow access to arbitrary files stored on USB devices via the Files app, the iPad could serve the needs of most people.
mcphage 8y ago
> It's always interesting how something monopoly-like makes companies lazy. > I really don't understand why they fail so hard to update their hardware. It's not because of their monopoly-like status, it's because they make so little money on Macs compared to the vast sums of money they make on iPhones. They probably look at their developers, and ask "how much is it worth to us to have this developer work on a Mac? How much is it worth to us to have this developer work on an iPhone?" and the iPhone wins out every time. Which... well, sucks, for the rest of us, but it's not laziness—it's opportunity costs.
- s3m4j 8y ago
  But then, they lose interests (and endorsements) of software engineers and IT professionals. And, in the words of Steve Ballmer "developers developers developers". If they want to sell hardware, they need to convince me to recommend them to the person who asks my advice. (rhetorical "me")
- cutler 8y ago
  "developer work on an iPhone" . Sorry, I don't get it.
  - mcphage 8y ago
    I mean Apple developers / engineers, either being assigned to work on the iPhone hardware & iOS software, or the Mac hardware & macOs software.
ryanobjc 8y ago
Could you justify your first sentence some more? Your claim is that Apple is a monopoly - over what I wonder? Neither Mac OS nor iOS are a monopoly. Monopolies do trend towards efficiency of effort on their behalf and so-called 'rent seeking' but I'm not really sure that is what we are seeing here. Sticking with a tried and true keyboard design would be the monopolistic bent, avoiding any significant upgrades or consumer oriented innovations. Despite people's claim, the new macbook pros do have big innovations. You might not like them, but here they are: - Thin -> substantially thinner than my older mac book pro. It's nice! - Keyboard is part of making it thinner - Touchid built in - oled/dynamic keyboard/touch strip These are consumer oriented innovations, even if you do not like them (personally I don't like the keyboard or the touch-strip.
- Heliosmaster 8y ago
  In recent year MBP have been a near monopoly for developers machines, at least in small-to-medium startups.

scarface74 8y ago

Apple still sells the 2015 pre USB C MacBooks new. If I had to buy a MacBook, that’s the one to get.

econochoice 8y ago
I've run into a few issues with the Early to Mid 2015 Macbook fans. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I've seen it across three machines.
tonyedgecombe 8y ago
Not for much longer I think, they are already unavailable in the UK.

wetpaws 8y ago

They don't update their hardware because of the reasons you stated in your post. People love Macs and would buy them regardless of hardware.

dman 8y ago

Sad fact is that Mac sales are now 10% of Apples revenue. I think the only reason Macs receive any attention at all within Apple is because you need Macs to build iphone/ipad apps. Another way of framing this is - how much effort do you put on the bottom 10 percent of your TODO list.

sidlls 8y ago
Another way to look at that is the company risks up to 10% of its top line if it doesn't support the product line. Everyone's priorities may differ but if I'm running a business I don't casually give up 10% of my revenue. That's a lot!
falcor84 8y ago
The Mac line brought them ~25B revenue in 2017, in one of their best years ever. Looking at a business of this magnitude, I don't see how it matters what percentage of the total revenue this is. There's so much money to be had here and, unlike an individual, a company's attention shouldn't be so limited as to essentially make them forget to collect this additional revenue.
- sandworm101 8y ago
  >> a company's attention shouldn't be so limited as to essentially make them forget to collect this additional revenue. For a publicly-traded company all that matters is stock price. One would assume that collecting revenues has a direct impact on that price, but we are not in so rational a world. Today it is all about growth potential rather than current revenues. Apple could be turning huge profits on laptops, but if they see that as a mature market then they will and must ignore it. Given Apple's grip on users, they may even see laptops as a competitor to their iPhone business. Time on the macbook is time not on the iPhone. The intent may be to transition all macbook devotees away from lap/desktops altogether.
  - sulam 8y ago
    > For a publicly-traded company all that matters is stock price. Really? You don't want to qualify that at all, maybe? If not, please explain the first 10 years of AMZN.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      He said potential growth. People see Amazon as a growth business.

gbrown 8y ago

I'm still using a 2011 MBP, and I'm quite satisfied. I've replaced the battery, upgraded the RAM, upgraded the HD, and replaced the HD cable, but it's still sufficient for my needs (heavy compute gets done on remote servers anyway). I'm on Linux though, so given recent fails and the general trend towards non-repairability and non-upgradeability, there's very little incentive for me to consider Apple hardware when I eventually upgrade.

pfranz 8y ago
Last year I upgraded a 2011 and 2010 MBP to a new MB and MBP. The older laptops I had already maxed out RAM and replaced them with SSDs. The new laptops were worth the upgrade for boot time, wake from sleep, weight, and battery life. However, every criticism about the new laptops are true--even if you throw money at dongles, cables, and wireless replacements. What's ridiculous is I bought an Apple usb-c to hdmi cable and it has very large amounts of signal issues on both the MB and MBP. Thankfully a third-party usb-c to displayport doesn't have those issues. Lastly, since the RAM and HDD aren't upgradable I had to pay higher prices upfront instead of upgrading after the fact like I've been doing for over a decade. Unfortunately, this was also true when looking at similar Linux/PC laptops. I think if I had a 2012 model I would have been able to wait longer for new laptops. Currently, I'm very likely dumping the MBP as soon as new ones come out with a better keyboard. When I did my shopping last year I was prepared to get a Linux laptop if things looked comparable and the price was significantly cheaper (assuming the risk of unknown problems like battery or hardware longevity) and the prices were roughly the same with other compromises I wasn't prepared to make.
skunkworker 8y ago
2011s are a great machine. But as of the next MacOS release 10.14 they are no longer supported, as 10.14 will enforce Metal and those pre 2012s don't have the right gpus for it. I recently picked up a lightly used 2015 because the current touch bar ones continue to have problems.
- gbrown 8y ago
  I'm using Fedora anyway, so the software part doesn't bother me.

peatmoss 8y ago

The iPad Pro is the future of Apple. I am beginning to suspect that general purpose computing has no future apart from Linux—and even then, those of us clinging to it are going to start looking a lot like Amiga enthusiasts who’re keeping their old machines alive by sheer force of will.

emodendroket 8y ago
It's hard to imagine when there is still, like, active PC gaming communities and PCs are so important to office work. I remember seeing a lot of this take when people were buying up iPads, but I think there are real limitations -- tablets are just not really good for doing work.
- peatmoss 8y ago
  I very much hope you are right and I am wrong. The iPad Pro seems to be trying to mitigate some of those issues—at least for the growing segment of the populace who’d prefer to do everything on their phone. I don’t like where Apple is going, but I can easily see a Macbook a generation or two out whose software is more iOS than macOS, and whose character is pretty locked-down / appified.
  - cutler 8y ago
    Nah, Mac OS dev tools are far too *nix-based. That's assuming Apple values its developer base.
- VirtualAirwaves 8y ago
  Many Apple people are stuck in a bubble and they don't see the impact Chromebooks and Windows 10 PCs (including Microsoft's own Surface line) have in the "real world". I was an Apple user for years buy my last two laptops have been Microsoft Surfaces.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Tablets are perfectly capable of doing work - tablet operating systems on the other hand.... If Apple would just add support for pointing devices and if they would allow access to arbitrary files stored on USB devices via the Files app, the iPad could serve the needs of most people.

mcphage 8y ago

> It's always interesting how something monopoly-like makes companies lazy. > I really don't understand why they fail so hard to update their hardware. It's not because of their monopoly-like status, it's because they make so little money on Macs compared to the vast sums of money they make on iPhones. They probably look at their developers, and ask "how much is it worth to us to have this developer work on a Mac? How much is it worth to us to have this developer work on an iPhone?" and the iPhone wins out every time. Which... well, sucks, for the rest of us, but it's not laziness—it's opportunity costs.

s3m4j 8y ago
But then, they lose interests (and endorsements) of software engineers and IT professionals. And, in the words of Steve Ballmer "developers developers developers". If they want to sell hardware, they need to convince me to recommend them to the person who asks my advice. (rhetorical "me")
cutler 8y ago
"developer work on an iPhone" . Sorry, I don't get it.
- mcphage 8y ago
  I mean Apple developers / engineers, either being assigned to work on the iPhone hardware & iOS software, or the Mac hardware & macOs software.

ryanobjc 8y ago

Could you justify your first sentence some more? Your claim is that Apple is a monopoly - over what I wonder? Neither Mac OS nor iOS are a monopoly. Monopolies do trend towards efficiency of effort on their behalf and so-called 'rent seeking' but I'm not really sure that is what we are seeing here. Sticking with a tried and true keyboard design would be the monopolistic bent, avoiding any significant upgrades or consumer oriented innovations. Despite people's claim, the new macbook pros do have big innovations. You might not like them, but here they are: - Thin -> substantially thinner than my older mac book pro. It's nice! - Keyboard is part of making it thinner - Touchid built in - oled/dynamic keyboard/touch strip These are consumer oriented innovations, even if you do not like them (personally I don't like the keyboard or the touch-strip.

Heliosmaster 8y ago
In recent year MBP have been a near monopoly for developers machines, at least in small-to-medium startups.