4 ms·

Even if they have, they are known for super strict security rules, so it won't be disclosed. I saw a link to their patent application where they patented a way

Even if they have, they are known for super strict security rules, so it won't be disclosed. I saw a link to their patent application where they patented a way to protect the current keyboard design from dust and crumbs. Personally, I got tired of their disregard for software developers issues with hardware, and now my working machine in the new XPS 13 from Dell. I am happy with it.

madengr 8y ago
As an EE, I despise using laptops, rather want real engineering workstations. So what is it with software developers and laptops? The portability? Or rather people just being used to a laptop since they are ubiquitous in college. Even plugged into monitors, laptop keyboards just plain suck. I have an XPS-13, and it's handy for field use with GNU Radio, but can't fathom doing anything productive on it.
- marrone12 8y ago
  People who work in businesses frequently need to take their computer along to meetings, or for pair programming, or if they're going to work remotely.
  - madengr 8y ago
    I guess I'm in a totally different work environment, as I've never had an internal meeting with a laptop present.
    - devilirium 8y ago
      My previous workplace had meetings like that. On my current project we just gather around on Skype from our workstation if we need to collaborate digitally.
  - devilirium 8y ago
    I believe developers should have a powerful workstation and a small laptop which is able to remote into the workstation. Pair programming can be done through Slack or Skype (highlight the screen when you want to pinpoint something - it's easier than pointing to the monitor) Although this setup doesn't solve the remote work issue as remote control protocols can be pretty slow or plainly unusable with a slow internet connection.
- volkk 8y ago
  personally, i like to work from random areas and not be confined to a desk per se. > I have an XPS-13, and it's handy for field use with an SDR, but can't fathom doing anything productive on it. im just a lowly developer working on the backend of sites running rails. im pretty sure i can code on a toaster if need be. probably highly depends on what kind of architecture youre coding on. i'd wager that game developers need beefy machines.
- s_kilk 8y ago
  > So what is it with software developers and laptops? The portability? Yes, the portability, that bit is non-negotiable. Plus, when I'm seated at a desk I can always plug in a good mechanical keyboard and external monitor.
- vorpalhex 8y ago
  > what is it with software developers and laptops? I've had to do emergency patches while sitting in a car on a cross-state roadtrip. I've had to ssh in to verify issues in national parks. Sometimes I just like sitting in a coffee shop or a park when I'm writing mindless code. I run an older macbook, with some semi-heavy docker containers for dev work. It's fine enough for most of my work.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  At my company we have laptops because the company wants people to secure them when they're not at their desk, by taking them with them. Home, meetings, you name it. Almost nobody uses their laptop keyboard, however, unless they're using the laptop away from their desk. We all have 2-3 monitors and external keyboards & mice.
  - pitaj 8y ago
    Same here. The entire engineering division uses laptops on docks with multiple monitors and the works.
  - madengr 8y ago
    Opposite here. My employers considers them liabilities, and it's pulling teeth to get one.
- adrice727 8y ago
  For me, it's the portability. I can work from my desk, a coffee shop, a park, or the floor of my living room, which is where I am right now. Working remotely is never an issue because I have everything I need with me.
- twblalock 8y ago
  Plug it in to a keyboard and mouse as well as a monitor when you are at your desk and the problem is solved.
- civilitty 8y ago
  I think it boils down to UI navigation. With a window manager, terminal, and an editor/IDE I don't really need to use the mouse to work effectively as a programmer. Once my muscle memory adapts to the keyboard layout, I'm set. However, navigating a 2D schematic/PCB/drawing or a 3D part with a touchpad is a nightmare and most software doesn't support the touch screen mechanics that I need to effectively replace navigation with a physical mouse. Even with a 3dconnexion portable 3D mouse, there's just too much clicking and precise movement involved in a UI like Altium or Solidworks to be usable. That and I've never seen a portable laptop that can handle a Solidworks multi-hundred part assembly or a 20 layer Altium PCB, except for massive 17" workstations that are ostensibly laptops.
- danpalmer 8y ago
  All the replies you've had so far are good reasons for why software engineers might prefer laptops. As a different way of looking at it, as an Electronic Engineer (I hope I got the right acronym), some of the software you run may well require a bit more performance than most software engineers need. I think a mobile i7, 16GB of fast RAM, and a fast SSD is pretty good for most developers now, particularly when we're not compiling code - we're mostly using scripting languages (at least the type of devs around here) so the development cycle depends more on reloading and parsing files off disk than on intensive compilation and optimisation steps. There are definitely software engineers who need more, but many will do just fine on a laptop, and the portability wins out. Compared to Electronic Engineering, I remember some of the software that EE students used at the uni I went to required some beefy hardware to run on. It was large complicated software, that I'd put in the same category as 3D modelling suites, or video editing/effects/rendering. It required high performance workstations, and higher performance simulation servers. I can totally see why an Electronic Engineer would prefer a workstation (although I think to call it a "real" workstation would be a little disingenuous, it depends what your engineering is!)
- gknoy 8y ago
  I'll echo what others have said: Portability is _not always_ what you want, but when you need it, a laptop is valuable. I normally work at a desk, with my laptop plugged into my extra monitors. (I could use a docking station but I actually like the keyboard + trackpad on this (older) Macbook.) Here are some times when I've benefitted from having a laptop: - I can grab it and walk into an enclosed meeting room for a video conference. - A coworker and I can grab a conference room and pair on some task if necessary. - When on-call, I keep my laptop with me when I go home. - I can leave early to run an errand, and then work from home in the evening. I am much more productive using my laptop than my home desktop, for some reason. It's likely that my laptop has all of my shell aliases, editor settings, source code, SSH keys, etc, but the main thing I think is that I don't need to context switch as heavily -- my editor still has the same things open, my shell has the same history, etc, as when I left work. The ergonomics of a laptop could be better. I used to have a beastly machine with a nice mechanical keyboard, etc. I miss that a bit, but there are substantial benefits to having a laptop.
bitL 8y ago
Are you an exception within your famous company or did they all abandon Macbooks?

madengr 8y ago

As an EE, I despise using laptops, rather want real engineering workstations. So what is it with software developers and laptops? The portability? Or rather people just being used to a laptop since they are ubiquitous in college. Even plugged into monitors, laptop keyboards just plain suck. I have an XPS-13, and it's handy for field use with GNU Radio, but can't fathom doing anything productive on it.

marrone12 8y ago
People who work in businesses frequently need to take their computer along to meetings, or for pair programming, or if they're going to work remotely.
- madengr 8y ago
  I guess I'm in a totally different work environment, as I've never had an internal meeting with a laptop present.
  - devilirium 8y ago
    My previous workplace had meetings like that. On my current project we just gather around on Skype from our workstation if we need to collaborate digitally.
- devilirium 8y ago
  I believe developers should have a powerful workstation and a small laptop which is able to remote into the workstation. Pair programming can be done through Slack or Skype (highlight the screen when you want to pinpoint something - it's easier than pointing to the monitor) Although this setup doesn't solve the remote work issue as remote control protocols can be pretty slow or plainly unusable with a slow internet connection.
volkk 8y ago
personally, i like to work from random areas and not be confined to a desk per se. > I have an XPS-13, and it's handy for field use with an SDR, but can't fathom doing anything productive on it. im just a lowly developer working on the backend of sites running rails. im pretty sure i can code on a toaster if need be. probably highly depends on what kind of architecture youre coding on. i'd wager that game developers need beefy machines.
s_kilk 8y ago
> So what is it with software developers and laptops? The portability? Yes, the portability, that bit is non-negotiable. Plus, when I'm seated at a desk I can always plug in a good mechanical keyboard and external monitor.
vorpalhex 8y ago
> what is it with software developers and laptops? I've had to do emergency patches while sitting in a car on a cross-state roadtrip. I've had to ssh in to verify issues in national parks. Sometimes I just like sitting in a coffee shop or a park when I'm writing mindless code. I run an older macbook, with some semi-heavy docker containers for dev work. It's fine enough for most of my work.
rootusrootus 8y ago
At my company we have laptops because the company wants people to secure them when they're not at their desk, by taking them with them. Home, meetings, you name it. Almost nobody uses their laptop keyboard, however, unless they're using the laptop away from their desk. We all have 2-3 monitors and external keyboards & mice.
- pitaj 8y ago
  Same here. The entire engineering division uses laptops on docks with multiple monitors and the works.
- madengr 8y ago
  Opposite here. My employers considers them liabilities, and it's pulling teeth to get one.
adrice727 8y ago
For me, it's the portability. I can work from my desk, a coffee shop, a park, or the floor of my living room, which is where I am right now. Working remotely is never an issue because I have everything I need with me.
twblalock 8y ago
Plug it in to a keyboard and mouse as well as a monitor when you are at your desk and the problem is solved.
civilitty 8y ago
I think it boils down to UI navigation. With a window manager, terminal, and an editor/IDE I don't really need to use the mouse to work effectively as a programmer. Once my muscle memory adapts to the keyboard layout, I'm set. However, navigating a 2D schematic/PCB/drawing or a 3D part with a touchpad is a nightmare and most software doesn't support the touch screen mechanics that I need to effectively replace navigation with a physical mouse. Even with a 3dconnexion portable 3D mouse, there's just too much clicking and precise movement involved in a UI like Altium or Solidworks to be usable. That and I've never seen a portable laptop that can handle a Solidworks multi-hundred part assembly or a 20 layer Altium PCB, except for massive 17" workstations that are ostensibly laptops.
danpalmer 8y ago
All the replies you've had so far are good reasons for why software engineers might prefer laptops. As a different way of looking at it, as an Electronic Engineer (I hope I got the right acronym), some of the software you run may well require a bit more performance than most software engineers need. I think a mobile i7, 16GB of fast RAM, and a fast SSD is pretty good for most developers now, particularly when we're not compiling code - we're mostly using scripting languages (at least the type of devs around here) so the development cycle depends more on reloading and parsing files off disk than on intensive compilation and optimisation steps. There are definitely software engineers who need more, but many will do just fine on a laptop, and the portability wins out. Compared to Electronic Engineering, I remember some of the software that EE students used at the uni I went to required some beefy hardware to run on. It was large complicated software, that I'd put in the same category as 3D modelling suites, or video editing/effects/rendering. It required high performance workstations, and higher performance simulation servers. I can totally see why an Electronic Engineer would prefer a workstation (although I think to call it a "real" workstation would be a little disingenuous, it depends what your engineering is!)
gknoy 8y ago
I'll echo what others have said: Portability is _not always_ what you want, but when you need it, a laptop is valuable. I normally work at a desk, with my laptop plugged into my extra monitors. (I could use a docking station but I actually like the keyboard + trackpad on this (older) Macbook.) Here are some times when I've benefitted from having a laptop: - I can grab it and walk into an enclosed meeting room for a video conference. - A coworker and I can grab a conference room and pair on some task if necessary. - When on-call, I keep my laptop with me when I go home. - I can leave early to run an errand, and then work from home in the evening. I am much more productive using my laptop than my home desktop, for some reason. It's likely that my laptop has all of my shell aliases, editor settings, source code, SSH keys, etc, but the main thing I think is that I don't need to context switch as heavily -- my editor still has the same things open, my shell has the same history, etc, as when I left work. The ergonomics of a laptop could be better. I used to have a beastly machine with a nice mechanical keyboard, etc. I miss that a bit, but there are substantial benefits to having a laptop.

bitL 8y ago

Are you an exception within your famous company or did they all abandon Macbooks?